From: Digestifier To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu Reply-To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu Date: Wed, 14 Sep 94 08:13:09 EDT Subject: Linux-Misc Digest #756 Linux-Misc Digest #756, Volume #2 Wed, 14 Sep 94 08:13:09 EDT Contents: Re: best PCMCIA ethernet? (Harald T. Alvestrand) Re: Copyright and licensing - a plea to software authors (Jeff Kesselman) Re: Is 2 MB enough for an ISDN router (Alan Cox) Re: What about a votr on comp.os.linux.doom (Eugene Tyurin) Re: Yggdrasil FTP site (Jeff Kesselman) Re: Alpha processor (Jim Paradis) Re: The snatchability factor (was Re: WABI vs (Eric Silver) Re: Linux is a GNU system and the DWARF support (Orc) *** PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE POSTING *** (misc-2.07) (Ian Jackson) Re: Why more than one partition? (Dan Pop) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hta@uninett.no (Harald T. Alvestrand) Crossposted-To: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.networking Subject: Re: best PCMCIA ethernet? Date: 14 Sep 1994 07:52:45 GMT For running Linux on Ethernet, I use: - Kernel 1.1.48 (it worked with 1.1.45 too) - "modules", "NEW" version (date June 26, I think) - David Hinds' PCMCIA drivers, version 2.1.3 (current is 2.2.3, I think) from cb-iris.stanford.edu:/pub/pcmcia - D-Link DE-650 for the Ethernet (this has been supported the longest, but the 3Com is supposed to be supported too) - Megahertz XJ1144 for the modem Works like a charm! -- Harald Tveit Alvestrand Harald.T.Alvestrand@uninett.no G=Harald;I=T;S=Alvestrand;O=uninett;P=uninett;C=no +47 73 59 70 94 My son's name is Torbjørn. The letter between "j" and "r" is o with a slash. ------------------------------ From: jeffpk@netcom.com (Jeff Kesselman) Subject: Re: Copyright and licensing - a plea to software authors Date: Wed, 14 Sep 1994 03:29:23 GMT In article <353ta2$1eh@drealm.drealm.org> thanatos@drealm.drealm.org (Peter Jones) writes: >Jim Goddard (jgoddard@batman.rd.qms.com) wrote: >[snip snip] >> Have to disagree with you on these two Ian. If the code does not >[snip snip snip] >> Jim > >This, I think, must be a difference between the US and UK Copyright >law. My understanding is that Ian is correct for the UK: copyright is >implicit on any work. Of course, I stand to be corrected. And European >copyright law is a whole other kettle of fish... > >-- Peter NO! Copyright is also implicit in the United States. Someone is just mis-informed (dangerously so...) ------------------------------ Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help From: iialan@iifeak.swan.ac.uk (Alan Cox) Subject: Re: Is 2 MB enough for an ISDN router Date: Tue, 13 Sep 1994 10:06:07 GMT In article <34vg4g$ito@gap.cco.caltech.edu> iotov@cco.caltech.edu (Mihail S. Iotov) writes: >Has anyone tried running linux with 2 MB to use it as a router only ? >I imagine for ISDN traffic even 386SX16 will be enough, but question is >about the memory. I have no 2MB PC at hand to check. 2Mb is plenty. If you want to use something as a router only why not just run PCroute on an old 286 ? Alan -- ..-----------,,----------------------------,,----------------------------,, // Alan Cox // iialan@www.linux.org.uk // GW4PTS@GB7SWN.#45.GBR.EU // ``----------'`----------------------------'`----------------------------'' ------------------------------ From: gene@insti.physics.sunysb.edu (Eugene Tyurin) Subject: Re: What about a votr on comp.os.linux.doom Date: 13 Sep 1994 00:53:22 GMT Reply-To: gene@insti.physics.sunysb.edu (Eugene Tyurin) Exactly. Doomers --> alt.games.doom, but first FTP to infant2.sphs.indiana.edu, /pub/doom. -- Eugene Tyurin ( ITP, Stony Brook Univ. ) E-mail: gene@insti.physics.sunysb.edu ( MIME mail is welcome! ) WWW: http://www.physics.sunysb.edu:80/~gene/plan.html ------------------------------ Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help From: jeffpk@netcom.com (Jeff Kesselman) Subject: Re: Yggdrasil FTP site Date: Tue, 13 Sep 1994 03:57:02 GMT In article <1994Sep12.113107.8707@rdr.com> eruck@rdr.com writes: > >Is there a problem with the ftp site at Yggdrasil, I keep getting an unknown >host from ftp.yggdrasil.com? Interesting, so do I. Thats the site they list in their Fall94 release docs. Maybe their name server has forgotten them (that used to happen to us at work on occasion.) ------------------------------ From: paradis@sousa.amt.ako.dec.com (Jim Paradis) Subject: Re: Alpha processor Date: 12 Sep 1994 23:53:34 -0400 jmantel@worf.infonet.net wrote: : I saw that someone posted some info about a prot of linux to the alpha : processor. I could not find that info and was wondering if someone could : tell me where to find it or summarize it for me. Oh heck... it's not THAT long, and it hasn't shown up on c.o.l.a yet, so here it is: Linux/AXP Progress Report September 9, 1994 Jim Paradis Alpha Migration Tools Group Digital Equipment Corporation Introduction - What Is Linux/AXP? The Linux FAQ (Frequently-Asked-Questions) list describes Linux as follows: Linux is a Unix clone for 386/486-based PCs, written from scratch by Linus Torvalds, with assistance from a loosely-knit team of hackers across the Net. It aims towards POSIX compliance. It has all the features you would expect in a modern fully-fledged Unix, including true multitasking, virtual memory, shared libraries, demand loading, shared copy-on-write executables, proper memory management and TCP/IP networking. It uses the hardware features of the 386 processor family (TSS segments et al) to implement these features. It is distributed under the GNU General Public License Although the distributed Linux kernel depends heavily on the x86 processor architecture, it is feasible to port it to other architectures. Indeed, ports are currently in progress to the Alpha AXP, 680x0, PowerPC, MIPS, and possibly other architectures. Linux/AXP is my port of the Linux operating system to the Digital Alpha AXP architecture. Overview of Linux/AXP Linux/AXP is a port of Linux to the Digital Alpha AXP RISC microprocessor. It is based on the Linux V1.0 kernel. Linux V1.0 was current when I started the project. To limit the number of variables, I decided to stick with a single version while developing the AXP-specific pieces. Although the Linux V1.0 kernel provides more than enough functionality for our current needs, we might investigate subsequently leapfrogging to the most-current stable kernel when Linux/AXP is stable. Linux/AXP is a 32-bit operating system. Except for those cases where the kernel must interface with the Alpha AXP hardware, no kernel data type is wider than 32 bits. As far as C programmers are concerned, so pointers and longs are 32 bits. The decision to remain with 32-bit data types was based on our group's experience with migrating legacy software to a 64-bit environment. By not changing the size of any data types, those parts of Linux that are unaffected by the port (such as the file system code) should continue to work without modification. Changing the data type size would require significant code review to ensure that all data types are used correctly. Note that 64-bit quantities are still available for computation through the use of "long long" and "long double" C data types. Thus, the only limitation of a 32-bit operating system is the unavailability of 64-bit pointers. On PC-class machines, with at most a few tens of megabytes of physical memory, this should not be a significant restriction for the forseeable future. Linux/AXP is primarily targetted at PC-class Alpha AXP platforms that support ISA, EISA, VLB, and PCI devices. Support for other devices and platforms is possible in the future. Contributions of drivers for other platforms are always welcome. Current Project Status I am currently cross-developing the Linux kernel port on a DEC 3000 model 500 AXP that is running DEC OSF/1. I have also built and tested all of my development tools on a 486 box running Linux, and everything seems to work there too. Naturally, I prefer the Alpha AXP box 8-). The cross-development environment consists of gcc 2.5.8 with configuration options for "alpha-linux", as well as gas, gdb, ld, and GNU binutils. I modified gdb has been modified so as to allow source-level debugging of Linux when running on the ISP software simulator. ISP is an Alpha AXP CPU software simulator that runs on Ultrix, DEC OSF/1, Linux, OpenVMS, and Windows NT AXP. Only the DEC OSF/1 and Linux versions support remote debugging via gdb. The development environment also includes a set of utilities for viewing and manipulating ext2 file systems from user mode. These are necessary when creating a bootable file system image for Linux/AXP. The Linux kernel currently boots, goes through all initializations, and runs the first user task. At present, that first user task is a hand-crafted "hello, world" program in place of /etc/init. A more significant program is not available, due to the unavailability of libc. Porting libc has been taking place in parallel with kernel development and porting user and system utilities is taking place now. Linux/AXP currently boots from a 1.44Mb ext2 floppy or floppy image. Linux/AXP does not yet have disk drivers. The bootstrap code reads the floppy image into a RAM disk area, and the kernel uses the RAM disk as its root file system. The bootstrapper takes the RAM disk size from the file system; the size of the RAM disk is limited only by available system memory. Future directions Currently I'm getting a core set of utilities (sh, ls, grep, cat) up and running, and packaging up a "developer's kit" for those who would like to contribute to the project. The developer's kit will consist of: - Sources for the Linux/AXP kernel - Sources for all cross-development tools (gcc, etc) - Sources for the ISP AXP CPU simulator - Porting notes, build instructions, etc. The developer's kit will definitely work on DEC OSF/1 systems and Intel Linux systems. It will probably run on other UNIX systems as well, but I cannot guarantee that. The version of Linux in the developer's kit will probably have only console-callback device drivers. Console-callbacks are the Alpha AXP equivalents of BIOS calls on an Intel system. They are quite slow because they run synchronously with interrupts disabled. As on an Intel system, using console-callback or BIOS drivers will get you up and creaking, but an important item on the agenda will be to write real device drivers that take full advantage of the system and the Alpha AXP CPU. The supplied console-callback drivers will only support local disk and console character I/O. No networking, graphics, or windowing support will be available. Distributed utilities will be minimal and the kernel itself will be extremely fragile. The developer's kit will be distributed via anonymous ftp, with the location to be announced. If you would like to contribute to the Linux/AXP project, please send email to paradis@amt.ako.dec.com. I will maintain a list of who is working on what, to reduce duplication of effort. Please note that in order to do useful work in the device-driver space, you MUST have access to an ISA or EISA-based Alpha AXP system (such as the DEC 2000 AXP). Unfortunately, we are not in a position to lend out development systems at this time, except to Linus of course 8-). Questions/comments/requests please to paradis@amt.ako.dec.com. -- Jim Paradis (paradis@tallis.enet.dec.com) The purpose of time is to keep everything from happening at once. It's not working. -- Jim Paradis (paradis@tallis.enet.dec.com) The purpose of time is to keep everything from happening at once. It's not working. ------------------------------ From: silver.e@bonk.io.org (Eric Silver) Crossposted-To: comp.sys.hp,comp.sys.hp.apps,comp.sys.sun.apps,comp.windows.x,comp.windows.x.apps,comp.unix.unixware Subject: Re: The snatchability factor (was Re: WABI vs Date: 13 Sep 1994 04:19:46 GMT J.J. Paijmans (paai@kub.nl) wrote: : In article msohnius@novell.co.uk (Martin Sohnius) writes: : ... : > : >Over lunch today, I mentioned this thread to the guy who is in charge of : >software piracy issues for Novell-Wordperfect in Europe. His reaction was : >"forward the thread to me". (See above, re legal insurance.) : > : >BTW, I understand that WP 6 for UnixWare is in beta. : > : >-- : > +--------------------------------------------+ : >Martin Sohnius | "It doesn't matter whether the cat is | : Martin not only accused me implicitly of software-piracy (see this : thread a few weeks ago), he now threatens to set his legal bloodhounds : on this thread. Obviously it is his right to do so but it effectively : portraits the horror that established firms feel when confronted with : new developments. : And it is so bloody stupid... Linux offers a new way to boost : WP-sales, which is a BIG seller, and all they can do is wave with : lawyers and insert fingers in dykes, because it might threaten that : Unixware of theirs, that is a SMALL seller and likely will remain so. : Guess in which department Martin (or should I say: Mister Sohnius) : is working... : Paai. I don't think you'll find much sympathy here pal. : -- : Copyright Hans Paijmans 1994. Niets hierboven mag geheel of Wow! Copyright! Have you got yor nerve! : gedeeltelijk worden geciteerd buiten de nieuwsgroep(en) waar het : oorspronkelijk is geplaatst. Nothing of the above may be cited : outside the newsgroups in which the message originally was posted. Eric Silver ------------------------------ From: orc@pell.com (Orc) Subject: Re: Linux is a GNU system and the DWARF support Date: Tue, 13 Sep 1994 03:04:47 GMT In article <1994Sep11.200842.22743@cs.cornell.edu>, Matt Welsh wrote: >In article orc@pell.com (Orc) writes: >>In article <1994Sep8.142206.18896@cs.cornell.edu>, >> No reason. But since my first interpretation of RMS's idea is >>that the FSF will take credit for work they've not done, it seems >>like it's not the most politic way to ask for recognition. > >The FSF is not taking credit for anything that they have not >done. True. note that I said "first interpretation": when you said > RMS's idea (which I have heard first-hand) is that Linux systems > should be considered GNU systems with Linux as the kernel. the very first thing that popped into my head, even armed with the knowledge that RMS likes to make Pronouncements, was that FSF was trying to take credit for Linux. And I *like* the FSF, and support the work they're doing. >Or did >believe that it was the Linux development team which wrote gcc, >libc, and the dozens of other software tools which your Linux >system depends upon to run? Now I'd have to disagree with this. Aside from gcc and libc, I can get stuff from multiple sources, not just the FSF. I have at least as much Berkeley code on my linux box as I do FSF code -- if I was to convert over to FreeBSD, the only substantive change would be the kernel, and that's certainly not a "GNU system with BSD as the kernel" The GNU stuff is good, with very few bugs and gotchas, and the development of Linux would be quite different without having gcc around. And the [L]GPL is a nice idea, which I approve of, and would be happy to use if it wasn't for this recent exchange of messages. But using tools doesn't make what you wrote also an tool. ____ david parsons \bi/ orc@pell.com \/ ------------------------------ From: ijackson@nyx.cs.du.edu (Ian Jackson) Subject: *** PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE POSTING *** (misc-2.07) Date: 14 Sep 1994 04:03:16 -0600 Please do not post questions to comp.os.linux.misc - read on for details of which groups you should read and post to. Please do not crosspost anything between different groups of the comp.os.linux hierarchy. See Matt Welsh's introduction to the hierarchy, posted weekly. If you have a question about Linux you should get and read the Linux Frequently Asked Questions with Answers list from sunsite.unc.edu, in /pub/Linux/docs, or from another Linux FTP site. It is also posted periodically to c.o.l.announce. In particular, read the question `You still haven't answered my question!' The FAQ will refer you to the Linux HOWTOs (more detailed descriptions of particular topics) found in the HOWTO directory in the same place. Then you should consider posting to comp.os.linux.help - not comp.os.linux.misc. Note that X Windows related questions should go to comp.windows.x.i386unix, and that non-Linux-specific Unix questions should go to comp.unix.questions. Please read the FAQs for these groups before posting - look on rtfm.mit.edu in /pub/usenet/news.answers/Intel-Unix-X-faq and .../unix-faq. Only if you have a posting that is not more appropriate for one of the other Linux groups - ie it is not a question, not about the future development of Linux, not an announcement or bug report and not about system administration - should you post to comp.os.linux.misc. Comments on this posting are welcomed - please email me ! -- Ian Jackson (urgent email: iwj10@phx.cam.ac.uk) 2 Lexington Close, Cambridge, CB4 3LS, England; phone: +44 223 64238 ------------------------------ From: danpop@cernapo.cern.ch (Dan Pop) Subject: Re: Why more than one partition? Date: Tue, 13 Sep 1994 17:07:31 GMT In slg@slgsun.cb.att.com (Sean Gilley) writes: >As I'm just about to install a couple of 300M disks, I've got a question >about partitioning. > >My current system contains two IDE drives, one 100M and the other 60M. >I plan to keep the 60M for DOS, and use the 100M for my Linux root >partition. I'll probably transfer /usr to one of the new drives, as >space on that drive is tight. > >So I install these 300M drives. I know I've been told that drives with >more than one partition run faster than drives with a single partition. >I got a guess or two, but can someone give me a definitive answer as to >why this is true, if it is true? I don't think this is true. > >And other than that, is there a reason to partition the drives into >multiple partitions? Mostly for administrative reasons. It makes sense to have /tmp on a partition of its own, so that a "bad" user or process won't cripple your system when it fills the root partition and it makes sense to have /usr/local on its own partition, as well as /home so that you can upgrade your system without having to save and restore these parts of your system. The main drawback of this approach is that you have to statically allocate the space on your disk between the different partitions, and changing the allocation later is a major pain. Also, having a swap partition on each disk is a good idea, because this should increase the swapping performance. Dan -- Dan Pop CERN, CN Division Email: danpop@cernapo.cern.ch Mail: CERN - PPE, Bat. 31 R-004, CH-1211 Geneve 23, Switzerland ------------------------------ ** FOR YOUR REFERENCE ** The service address, to which questions about the list itself and requests to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, is: Internet: Linux-Misc-Request@NEWS-DIGESTS.MIT.EDU You can send mail to the entire list (and comp.os.linux.misc) via: Internet: Linux-Misc@NEWS-DIGESTS.MIT.EDU Linux may be obtained via one of these FTP sites: nic.funet.fi pub/OS/Linux tsx-11.mit.edu pub/linux sunsite.unc.edu pub/Linux End of Linux-Misc Digest ******************************