From: Digestifier To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu Reply-To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu Date: Sat, 1 Oct 94 11:13:43 EDT Subject: Linux-Misc Digest #857 Linux-Misc Digest #857, Volume #2 Sat, 1 Oct 94 11:13:43 EDT Contents: Re: Don't use Linux or it's to academic! (Mark Bolzern) Re: Don't use Linux or it's to academic! (Mark Bolzern) Re: P5-90 MHz beats SGI R4000-100MHz. (James Lewis Nance) Re: Linux, 40,000 Cover CD's (Neil Matthew) Linux mentioned in PC Week (Dennis Heltzel) Re: New Linux Distribution (zachary brown) Re: Suggestions for a 486 PCI Motherboard (Mark A. Horton KA4YBR) Re: Maple V for Linux (Tony Galway) Re: New Linux Distribution (Viktor T. Toth) Re: Copyright and licensing - a plea to software authors (Craig Milo Rogers) Re: ParcPlace OI builder?? (Klaus Schniedergers) Re: New Linux Distribution (Juana Moreno) Re: SCO WordPerfect: does it run on Linux? (Bill Willis) Re: Time Screws up w/ Linux (Spencer PriceNash) Re: 16 Port Board: Which model and where?? (Pete Kruckenberg) Re: X News-reader for LinuX (Robert Ashcroft) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mark@gcs.com (Mark Bolzern) Subject: Re: Don't use Linux or it's to academic! Date: Fri, 30 Sep 1994 00:36:05 GMT In article <7PIWkunLQ994071yn@oslonett.no>, Svein Erik Brostigen wrote: > >First, please excuse my language - English is my second language, >Norwegian is my first. > >Now, I would never (or at least not for some years) recommend Linux to >my customers as an alternative to MS-DOS or OS/2, especially not when >we are talking about networks and day-to-day use of business programs. > >2. There are no programs available that does Word-processing, spreadsheets, > databases, presentation graphics and so on, as we have under MS-DOS > and Windows. What would you call FlagShip? or Lotus 123 under dosemu? WP under dosemu? >3. There is currently no easy way to interconnect to LAN Server or Netware > natively, i.e. from Linux. Sure there is.... Netware NFS & TCP/IP.... >6. Nationalized version of the few programs existing are not available. FlagShip is fully nationalized >9. Printed manuals and easy 'Get started' manuals does not exist. Sure they do... we print Mat Welsh's, among others I have seen. >12. There is no disk-compression. This is shaky on any platform & disk space is cheap.. >What amazes me, is that there are so few from the commercial world in >this fora, only from the academic world. Maybe I should take that as >a sign telling me that this is of purely academic interest at the >moment. > >Now gentlemen, it's up to YOU! Ok, I have a major commercial product ported to Linux.... Will you talk about it? try the free demo from my ftp server? -- Mark Bolzern : mark@gcs.com USA Tel: (303) 699-7470 Fax: (303) 699-2793 WorkGroup Solutions, Inc. The FlagShip "CA-Clipper and XBase on Unix" People FlagShip is a 4GL Database Development System & XBase Porting Tool for Unix No Runtime Fees Info at ftp.wgs.com : /pub2/wgs/Filelist OR mail: info@wgs.com ------------------------------ From: mark@gcs.com (Mark Bolzern) Subject: Re: Don't use Linux or it's to academic! Date: Fri, 30 Sep 1994 00:43:29 GMT In article <35s7ms$a65@ugle.unit.no>, Hallvard Paulsen wrote: > >Well, IBM seams to realize that MCA is not going >to survive very much longer. Yea, by buildind ISA & PCI machines & pahsing out MCA boxes. >|> What amazes me, is that there are so few from the commercial world in >|> this fora, only from the academic world. Maybe I should take that as >|> a sign telling me that this is of purely academic interest at the >|> moment. > >This is still an academic net. I don't know how many commercial >places are connected at this time. Anywhay, "nobody has ever >been fired for buying IBM is still an important phrase". I personally know six different people that WERE fired for buying IBM. One AS400, several RS/6000 and more for MCA. -- Mark Bolzern : mark@gcs.com USA Tel: (303) 699-7470 Fax: (303) 699-2793 WorkGroup Solutions, Inc. The FlagShip "CA-Clipper and XBase on Unix" People FlagShip is a 4GL Database Development System & XBase Porting Tool for Unix No Runtime Fees Info at ftp.wgs.com : /pub2/wgs/Filelist OR mail: info@wgs.com ------------------------------ From: jlnance@eos.ncsu.edu (James Lewis Nance) Subject: Re: P5-90 MHz beats SGI R4000-100MHz. Date: 1 Oct 1994 12:31:00 GMT Reply-To: jlnance@eos.ncsu.edu (James Lewis Nance) In article , lera@zeus.chem.wvu.edu (Valery Petrov) writes: > Path: taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!darwin.sura.net!wvnvms!cerc.wvu.edu!zeus.chem.wvu.edu!lera > > This is the code to I've used to test floating point performance. I would > appreciate if you post your results for R4600. > On R4000 it gives: > timex: > real 3:37.38 > user 3:13.71 > sys 10.37 > If you want another Reference point Here are the times on the 590 model of an RS6000: > timex ./a.out Data: Ly = 109.300000, time = 0.000000 t=99.1, nit=4, dt=2.05, xmin = 0.0000 Done, v = 0.337000, avgdfl = 0.000000 dt = 2.048668 real 117.96 user 117.62 sys 0.04 ------------------------------ From: nm@mobicom.demon.co.uk (Neil Matthew) Reply-To: nm@mobicom.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: Linux, 40,000 Cover CD's Date: Tue, 20 Sep 1994 14:33:01 +0000 A.P. Crossan (m3apc@csc.liv.ac.uk) wrote: : Anders Hedborg (ahe@elixir.e.kth.se) wrote: : > When is it supposed to be on the shelves? And what issue should I : > ask for? : I mailed lasermoon this question, but I'm still waiting a reply. : The latest edition of PC-PLUS states that they are changing the publication : date. The November copy will not appear until 1st of that month -- quite a : wait :-( The current issue, out now, has Slackware Linux on the CD on the front! It's the October 1994 issue, you do not have to wait 6 weeks! (it may have been a late addition, so it's not prominent and only appears on the CD contents list shown on the CD edition itself I think). Regards Neil +------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Neil Matthew Non sequitur | | nm@mobicom.demon.co.uk Your facts are uncoordinated | +------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ------------------------------ From: dheltzel@crl.com (Dennis Heltzel) Subject: Linux mentioned in PC Week Date: 28 Sep 1994 20:32:52 -0000 Just read the latest PC Week and found that they mentioned Linux in a short article about 32-bit OS's. It was one of 2 "options of particular interest" for UNIX OS's (the other was AIX 4.1). I was favorably impressed by the following quote: "Linux, meanwhile, is a UNIX-compatible system with freely available source code, high stability, and growing commercial support." I especially like the mention of high stability. Maybe this will satisfy the "it's not ready for prime time" naysayers; then again, probably not. Sept 26 issue, page 14 Dennis ------------------------------ From: zbrown@lynx.dac.neu.edu (zachary brown) Subject: Re: New Linux Distribution Date: 1 Oct 1994 09:36:26 -0400 Hi. I'm relatively new to Linux, and to unix in general, having used DOS basically all my life. My suggestion is this: Do all the stuff you're talking about, about single user mode and scripts to emulate dos commands, etc., because it will provide a familiar atmosphere. But also make it incredibly easy to, layer by layer, strip away the crippledness. TeX, for example, is a tremendously powerful and complex thing, but it's not difficult to begin using it to produce attractive documents. The key to this whole debate is transition. Obviously no one wants to see millions of DOS users stuck with a shitty distribution of Linux. Unfortunately it is quite possible that this new distribution may actually become a standard for many people, unless active steps are taken to encourage them in and inform them about unix's greater power and versatility. The only way I can see to do this is to give them a complete distribution, in which many of the features and commands are simply turned off, waiting for a very simple procedure to make them active. So give them the DOS interface they know so well, and the single user mode, and all the rest of the nightmare. And underneath it all, give them LINUX! ------------------------------ From: mah@ka4ybr.com (Mark A. Horton KA4YBR) Subject: Re: Suggestions for a 486 PCI Motherboard Date: Sat, 1 Oct 1994 11:29:09 GMT Steven M. Henry (smhenry@vt.edu) wrote: : I am in the market to upgrade my computer and want to purchase a 486 PCI : motherboard that will give me good performance and will be compatible with : Linux. Please email me or post any replies. : I will post a summary of the responses. Why not just download a copy of the PCI-HOWTO from sunsite? -- "Linux! Guerrilla UNIX Development Venimus, Vidimus, Dolavimus." ============================================================ Mark A. Horton ka4ybr mah@ka4ybr.atl.ga.us P.O. Box 747 Decatur GA US 30031-0747 mah@ka4ybr.com +1.404.371.0291 33 45 31 N / 084 16 59 W ------------------------------ From: tony@engr.mun.ca (Tony Galway) Subject: Re: Maple V for Linux Date: 28 Sep 1994 23:14:21 GMT Reply-To: tony@engr.mun.ca rossn@unbc.edu (Ross Niebergall) writes: >In article <369jag$rp@news.bu.edu> spw@chamois.bu.edu (Steve Weibel) writes: >>I don't know... When I can pick up a student version of Mathematica for >>Windows at the bookstore for $160, I'm tempted to keep my DOS partition. >You should note that the price that was quoted for Maple for Linux >was not the student version. I would imagine the higher price for maple is due to unix being a multi-user platform. Windows is for one person, however on a unix implementation of a program (unless it is otherwise restricted, and I dont think maple is) then that program is available to alot of people. (only a guess :) ) -Tony -- Tony Galway | Life is what happens while you're making other plans. C-CAE |------------------------------------------------------- Memorial University | "I dissapprove of what you say, but will defend to tony@engr.mun.ca | the death your right to say it" - Voltaire ------------------------------ From: vttoth@vttoth.com (Viktor T. Toth) Subject: Re: New Linux Distribution Date: Sat, 1 Oct 1994 00:29:16 >Juana Moreno wrote: >>I have been thinking of putting up a new Linux distribution especially >>oriented to DOS-Win dummies. I have taken a nontraditional approach and >>am willing to sacrifice many of the sacred cows of Unix. [stuff deleted] Is this post for real? It is not the 'sacred cows' of Unix you are sacrificing, it is essential functionality. If all you want to accomplish is to make Linux look like DOS/Windows, why bother? Why not just install the real thing instead? What you are suggesting here sounds about as ridiculuous as a car dealer would, who would try to sell cars cut in half lengthwise to appeal to those 'motorcycle dummies' out there. Unix (or Linux) is *NOT* DOS/Windows, nor was it ever meant to be; the very reason why one would want to run UNIX is to have networking, multiuser capabilities, etc... the very stuff you are trying to take away. Ah, why do I bother? This posting was probably flame-bait anyways. Viktor ------------------------------ From: rogers@drax.isi.edu (Craig Milo Rogers) Subject: Re: Copyright and licensing - a plea to software authors Date: 28 Sep 1994 23:01:27 -0700 [Note: I am not a lawyer. The following is not legal advice.] In article <36dje5$389@ursula.ee.pdx.edu> marcus@ee.pdx.edu (Marcus Daniels) writes: >The subterfuge is in pretending that a (gmp) dependent body of code >isn't dependent just by virtue of being distributed separately. >It is a change in packaging, nothing more. Your analogy would >have been more interesting if you would have replaced `MSDOS/drivers' with >`Hurd/Hurd-specific-applications'. Hmm.. No, the main problem is that the FSF appears to interpret the word "dependent" in a fashion which appears incompatible with U.S. Copyright law and current precedents (few though those are). Applying the generally-accepted Copyright law definitions of critical words and phrases, such as "derived from" and following the precise wording of GPL2, the allegedly "gmp" dependent code in the standard example is not legally gmp dependent (unless you apply an interface copyright); and in the grey areas, the separate distribution is potentially significant, too. Craig Milo Rogers ------------------------------ From: eedksc@teamos50.ericsson.se (Klaus Schniedergers) Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development Subject: Re: ParcPlace OI builder?? Date: 29 Sep 1994 09:20:34 GMT Reply-To: eedksc@aachen.ericsson.se >>>>> "David" == David A Vohwinkel writes: David> and can you buy any manuals for David> it? Yes, a manual for the library (not about the builder) is available as an ordinary book. I saw it in several bookstores. It seemed to be identical to the OI-lib-manual that you get when you buy an OI license. Title is 'OI Programmer's Guide' or similar. Klaus -- Klaus Schniedergers, OSS Design, eedksc@aachen.ericsson.se Me ------------------------------ From: madrid@gandalf.rutgers.edu (Juana Moreno) Subject: Re: New Linux Distribution Date: 29 Sep 1994 06:00:04 -0400 Thank you for the suggestions so far. I am serioulsy considering making this WIT distribution. But my intention, as I said, is that this will be a trial (transitional?) distribution, not a final one, so upgradeability to a major distribution (Slackware) is a main concern. I take S. Lee's idea of using UMSDOS and packaging it as LINUX.ZIP (WIT.ZIP). I changed my mind on the SCSI issue. In general, given the lack of drivers, ( a la *.SYS *.DRV in Dos-Win) in the Linux kernel and the difficulty of setting up Xconfig in a generic way, maybe the only solution will be to provide several different precompiled kernels and X servers/Xconfig's and ask the user some questions about their hardware in order to automatically choose the right configuration. So, I think I'll follow the example of the existing distributions with their multiple kernels. I did not change my mind about keeping the distribution tiny, stripping many Unix utilities. Even if the distribution looks similar to WinDos it won't be. Even with only enough utilities to match Microsoft's ones users will have the following advantages: - Nonpropietary formats in data files. I started hating Microsoft products the first time I wanted to edit the data I stored using CARDFILE.EXE - Upgradeability for FREE - Powerful shell scripting. I do not want to prevent users to use it, I just want to make it easier for them. One of the points of the .BAT->.sh translator is that users will be able to look at the .sh output and learn the basic .sh commands that way. And it seems so easy to make! - Reliable I/O redirection and pipes. Not even OS/2 does that properly. - Coherent integration of windows and shells. How frustrating is to try to open or close a Windows program from the command line. - No stupid limits on resources or size of files to edit. Reliable crash protection. No stupid limits on command lines. Reliable virtual memory. 32bit disk and memory access without hassles and in general a much better handling of the (supported) hardware. - Powerful automation of tasks via batch and cron. For example, running updatedb every night beats the fastest DosWin file finder by orders of magnitude. - Freedom from the 8.3 constraint. - Consistent mouse selection with and WITHOUT windowing system. - Multiple virtual consoles (I never thought of not having them, Erik) - Multiple users. OK, I changed my mind on this one, mainly because I realized that accounts make it easy to have different background bitmaps for different moods :-) I really don't buy the claim that having root access is dangerous since DosWin users have root access all the time. It's not that bad, it just demystifies the unix sysadmin work. So, my WIT distribution, as I see it now, will consist of: - Dos-like and Windows-like utilities - Grep, awk, sed, bash - Slip client and Mosaic - Dosemu and ( later ) Wine - Ghostscript Maybe I will include perl, tcl and tk (or tkperl) so that I can write a few frontends to some common tasks (like zipping/unzipping) I haven't decided yet about the applets that I'll include, so I am open to more suggestions. I don't have a complete list of Windows equivalents, so please help me with that. I feel there is a need to have a distribution like the Windows Introductory Trial distribution I am proposing. Repartitioning and filling 50M of your disk is just too much to try Linux. And the problem with installing just the "a" series of Slackware is that you get a lot of utilities that you will never use while others (like Xfm and dosemu) are missing. So thanks to all of you who made suggestions. I'd like to have more. ------------------------------ From: willis@cc03du01.ppp.ncsu.edu (Bill Willis) Subject: Re: SCO WordPerfect: does it run on Linux? Date: 29 Sep 1994 02:03:38 GMT Reply-To: willis@cc03du01.ppp.ncsu.edu (Bill Willis) -- Bill Willis In article <36cok9$6j1@clarknet.clark.net>, mjf@clark.net (Marc Fraioli) writes: |>Nope, 5.0 does have an X version. I have seen it on SunOS, and use it |>nearly every day on Ultrix. Due to my constant exposure to it and great |>hatred for it, I am afraid you will be unable to convince me of its |>non-existence (although I wish it were so). 5.1-X is not too bad, but |>it is not available for Ultrix, which is what I have on my desk at work. |> We have 5.1 on Ultrix. Ain't all that great, but we have it... Bill Willis ------------------------------ From: spencer@montego.umcc.umich.edu (Spencer PriceNash) Subject: Re: Time Screws up w/ Linux Date: 28 Sep 1994 22:54:24 -0400 In article , Kamal Shaker wrote: The above is ok, but >Spencer PriceNash (spencer@montego.umcc.umich.edu) wrote: This isn't true. Whatever I wrote has been deleted! >: In article <1994Sep16.064006.246@huiac.apana.org.au>, >: John Pearson wrote: >: >adamsvm@dunx1.ocs.drexel.edu (Vaughn Adams) writes: >: > >: >> I have had this problem for a while and never bothered to resolve it. >: >>Now that I need cron, I need to get it fixd. Everytime I boot Linux, my i >: >>clock screws up. THe time is always off, but the date is ok. This doesn't >: >>happen with any other OS that I have run on the computer. I am runnin >: >>Slackware 1.2 with a couple of dirrerent kernels. it seems to be kernel >: >>independant. > >Ha! You think you have problems, everytime I boot to linux it >sets the date to April!! I have no idea about this, but OS/2 >and Dos don't do anything like this.... I'd suggested using clock and date, as I recall. -- Spencer PriceNash spencer@spencer.ann-arbor.mi.us spencer@umcc.umich.edu Dan Quayle via anon ftp: Quotes at umcc.umich.edu in pub/users/quayle, GIFs and sound files at vaxa.crc.mssm.edu in quayle/gif and quayle/sound. ------------------------------ From: kruckenb@sal.cs.utah.edu (Pete Kruckenberg) Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help,comp.os.linux.admin Subject: Re: 16 Port Board: Which model and where?? Date: 29 Sep 1994 02:39:24 GMT Bart Kindt (bart@dunedin.es.co.nz) wrote: : Hi! I have to set up a 16 port Dial-In terminal server. For this, I need a : Linux compatible 16 (serial) Port PC board. I have read about boards with the : name BOCA, but is this the only one I can use? : And more important, where can I buy one, as cheap as possible? I am in New : Zealand, and they are *not* available here. : Any info and suggestions would be very much appreciated! : Please reply be E-Mail ! Digiboard will be releasing a Linux driver (1.1.50 kernel) for their PC/Xe board in about two weeks. I don't know if theirs is 16-port or not. You probably don't want to run 16 ports without using an intelligent I/O product such as Digiboards. There is also the Cyclades Cyclom, which is being advertised in Linux Journal. The driver is on sunsite in pub/Linux /kernel/misc, I think, with the name cyclad*. I believe they have an 8-port and 16-port version, and they are co-processed boards. Pete. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Pete Kruckenberg School: kruckenb@sal.cs.utah.edu University of Utah Work: pete@dswi.com Computer Engineering For even more addresses, "finger pete@dswi.com" ------------------------------ From: rna@leland.Stanford.EDU (Robert Ashcroft) Subject: Re: X News-reader for LinuX Date: 30 Sep 1994 19:13:28 GMT You might want to fix the newsreader you have before you go any further (so that you give a valid return address in the header). archie result follows. In article <36hj41$kts@news.tamu.edu>, Wrath Child wrote: >I'm looking for an Xnews reader for LinuX. If anyone has >any info about something like this...I would be a very >happy camper. archie xrn Host inf.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de Location: /local/news/newsreader FILE -rw-rw-r-- 263 Mar 4 1993 xrn Host pandora.tuc.noao.edu Location: /iraf/iraf/v210/AUX3/auxbin FILE -rwxr-xr-x 515716 May 1 1993 xrn Host tucana.tuc.noao.edu Location: /iraf/v210/AUX3/auxbin FILE -rwxr-xr-x 515716 May 1 1993 xrn Host harpo.seas.ucla.edu Location: /mnt/fs01 DIRECTORY dr-xr-xr-x 512 May 5 1993 xrn Host imag.imag.fr Location: /archive/x11 DIRECTORY drwxr-xr-x 512 Apr 18 08:19 xrn Host grasp1.univ-lyon1.fr Location: /pub/nfs-mounted/ftp.univ-lyon1.fr/unix/news/readers DIRECTORY drwxr-xr-x 512 Jun 2 21:06 xrn Location: /pub/nfs-mounted/sun/unix/news/readers DIRECTORY drwxr-xr-x 512 Jun 2 1993 xrn Host akiu.gw.tohoku.ac.jp Location: /.u2/BSD/0.1-ports/news DIRECTORY drwxrwxr-x 512 Jul 11 07:13 xrn Host news.cfi.waseda.ac.jp Location: /pub3/386BSD/0.1-ports/news DIRECTORY drwxr-xr-x 512 Jul 8 1993 xrn Host mcsun.eu.net Location: /news/readers DIRECTORY drwxrwxr-x 512 Feb 28 15:04 xrn Host ftp.luth.se Location: /pub/infosystems/news/readers DIRECTORY drwxr-xr-x 512 May 21 21:58 xrn ------------------------------ ** FOR YOUR REFERENCE ** The service address, to which questions about the list itself and requests to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, is: Internet: Linux-Misc-Request@NEWS-DIGESTS.MIT.EDU You can send mail to the entire list (and comp.os.linux.misc) via: Internet: Linux-Misc@NEWS-DIGESTS.MIT.EDU Linux may be obtained via one of these FTP sites: nic.funet.fi pub/OS/Linux tsx-11.mit.edu pub/linux sunsite.unc.edu pub/Linux End of Linux-Misc Digest ******************************