From: Digestifier To: Linux-Development@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu Reply-To: Linux-Development@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu Date: Sun, 27 Feb 94 09:13:04 EST Subject: Linux-Development Digest #505 Linux-Development Digest #505, Volume #1 Sun, 27 Feb 94 09:13:04 EST Contents: Re: PLEASE use the GPL (Brad Isley) Re: Specialix driver (Kjetil Torgrim Homme) Re: Specialix driver (Charles Hedrick) Re: Linux Darkstar 0.99.15 #2 Sat Jan 1 21:36:13 MET 1994 Alpha ?? (Donald J. Becker) Re: Specialix driver (Doug DeJulio) O_SYNC (GNU Emacs on X can't be interrupted by CTRL-G) (NIIBE Yutaka) using ioctl(KDSKBMODE) (Zeyd M. Ben-Halim) Re: PLEASE use the GPL (John F. Haugh II) Re: Tired question (PS/2 availability) (Arindam Banerji) Re: Specialix driver (Kjetil Torgrim Homme) Re: PLEASE use the GPL (Brad Isley) Re: effectiveness of cache ram? (Andrew Hutton) Finding new maintainer for dialog (Savio Lam) Re: PLEASE use the GPL (Tim Smith) Re: Specialix driver (Tim Smith) Re: Specialix driver (Tim Smith) Problems with shared Libs (Achim Reckeweg) Re: Alpha release of message catalog command and functions (Mitchum DSouza) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: brad@slammer.atl.ga.us (Brad Isley) Subject: Re: PLEASE use the GPL Date: Sun, 27 Feb 1994 02:57:39 GMT In article <1994Feb24.051058.1397@super.org> becker@super.org (Donald J. Becker) writes: >In article , >Brad Isley wrote: >>seriously confused. If you think this is unprofessional, I invite you >>to get a clue. You're obviously ignorant and/or unexperienced. > >Hmmm, we should take a poll. Is Russ Nelson > ( ) ignorant > ( ) inexperienced Oh, well. An apology is in order here. Sorry, Russ. What I meant to say was more like "If you believe the GPL is the only way to go, ..." Open foot. Insert mouth. But nobody believes the GPL is the only way to go, right? :-) Again, sorry. -- brad@slammer.atl.ga.us (Brad Isley) +1 404 925-9663(H) 493-2484(W) ------------------------------ From: kjetilho@ifi.uio.no (Kjetil Torgrim Homme) Crossposted-To: gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: Specialix driver Date: 27 Feb 1994 04:41:54 GMT +--- Doug DeJulio: | Why should I, as a simple computer hobbyist, care if Linux ever does | this? I'm more concerned with making sure *I* have the source code | to everything I can possibly get the source code for. +------- So _you_ would never buy a Specialix product, or if you did, you would start working on a free driver. If we get commercial companies to develop drivers _in_addition_ to all the voluntary work, we will all benefit. Kjetil T. ------------------------------ From: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu (Charles Hedrick) Subject: Re: Specialix driver Date: 27 Feb 94 04:28:20 GMT ddj+@cs.cmu.edu (Doug DeJulio) writes: >> Let's say I run Linux, and one of it's system calls is unique to the OS >>(It could be another OS like VSTa for example). If I use that unique system >>call, would my code need to be GPLed under the GPL? ... >That's my understanding, yes. ... PLEASE, can't people read the notices. With the Linux kernel sources comes a file COPYING. It contains the GPL, but there is a paragraph before it: NOTE! This copyright does *not* cover user programs that use kernel services by normal system calls - this is merely considered normal use of the kernel, and does *not* fall under the heading of "derived work". Also note that the GPL below is copyrighted by the Free Software Foundation, but the instance of code that it refers to (the linux kernel) is copyrighted by me and others who actually wrote it. Linus Torvalds Why are we having arguments over absurd interpretations of the GPL when Linus has clarified the interpretation that actually applies to Linux? ------------------------------ From: becker@super.org (Donald J. Becker) Subject: Re: Linux Darkstar 0.99.15 #2 Sat Jan 1 21:36:13 MET 1994 Alpha ?? Date: Sat, 26 Feb 1994 20:20:17 GMT >Philippe Steindl (ilg@imp.ch) wrote: >: Are there any people working/interested on/in an Alpha port of Linux? With >: the upcoming PCI alpha boards with a cheap 21066 Alpha, very fast Linux >: boxes for the price of an 486 could be realised. Maybe this is only a dream I'm interested in an Alpha port. As many people out there know my current research interest is cost-effective off-the-shelf clustered processors. If DEC does come out with a low price on AlphaPCI boards I would probably be interested enough to spend a lot of time on a Linux port. In article , Dave Hollenbeck wrote: >How about porting to a Hewlett Packard? :-) Same argument. Easy answer: cost. HP isn't interested in a low-cost PA implementation. Sure, they are "competitive" when you add all of the common workstation overhead to the single-processor price, but when considering the minimal system to build a cluster node (processor, memory, small disk, and OS) they don't come out ahead even with their relatively fast processor. To switch back to DEC for a moment: despite my hopes, I don't expect the AlphaPCI to be low-priced. I think DEC will do the traditional big-computer-company thing and try not to compete with their higher-priced products. -- Donald Becker becker@super.org IDA Supercomputing Research Center 17100 Science Drive, Bowie MD 20715 301-805-7482 ------------------------------ Crossposted-To: gnu.misc.discuss From: ddj+@cs.cmu.edu (Doug DeJulio) Subject: Re: Specialix driver Date: Sun, 27 Feb 1994 05:39:04 GMT In article <2kp8ai$i0@ifi.uio.no>, Kjetil Torgrim Homme wrote: >+--- Doug DeJulio: >| Why should I, as a simple computer hobbyist, care if Linux ever does >| this? I'm more concerned with making sure *I* have the source code >| to everything I can possibly get the source code for. >+------- > >So _you_ would never buy a Specialix product, or if you did, you would >start working on a free driver. If we get commercial companies to >develop drivers _in_addition_ to all the voluntary work, we will all >benefit. Please explain -- how will *I* benefit? -- Doug DeJulio ddj+@cmu.edu ------------------------------ From: gniibe@mri.co.jp (NIIBE Yutaka) Subject: O_SYNC (GNU Emacs on X can't be interrupted by CTRL-G) Date: 27 Feb 94 15:05:51 I found that when using GNU Emacs on X, it can't be interrupted by CTRL-G, because Linux doesn't support O_SYNC and SIGIO (yet). It can be interrupted when it runs on terminal, because a terminal device driver generates SIGQUIT by CTRL-G. Please try to evaluate the S expression (while t) and press CTRL-G. # My Linux is version 0.99pl15, GNU Emacs is version 19.22, Mule is # version 1.0pl1 (based on GNU Emacs 18.59). I can't imagine a life without Emacs, so it is rather big problem for me. :-) And I have another application which depends on O_SYNC for asynchronous I/O. If it works on my Linux box, I would be very happy. :-) Since Linux comes with source code, I can try to hack it. However, I want to know if someone is trying to implement that feature or not. Please let me know. Thank you in advance. -- NIIBE Yutaka Mitsubishi Research Institute, Inc. ------------------------------ From: zmbenhal@netcom.com (Zeyd M. Ben-Halim) Subject: using ioctl(KDSKBMODE) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 1994 06:14:20 GMT I'm trying to read keyboard scan code directly by using the call: ioctl(fd, KDSKBMODE, K_MEDIUMRAW); Everything seem ok except for the fact that pressing 'r' will result in the scroll lock light turning on and further input inhibited until 'w' is pressed. This also happens in K_RAW mode. Is there something I'm missing? Any way to get rid of this behavior? I'm using stock 0.9.15 an kbd-0.84 but still using libc 4.4.4 if it makes any difference. Thanks for any help, Zeyd -- --- Zeyd M. Ben-Halim zmbenhal@netcom.com 10479 1/4 Santa Monica Blvd, LA, CA, 90025 (310) 470-0281 ------------------------------ From: jfh@rpp386 (John F. Haugh II) Subject: Re: PLEASE use the GPL Reply-To: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org (John F. Haugh II) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 1994 20:39:21 GMT In article jonb@specialix.com (Jon Brawn) writes: >kenney@u.washington.edu (Michael Kenney) writes: >>Just because anybody *can* support it doesn't mean anybody *will*. The GPL >>is no guarantee that there will be anyone supporting the software years from >>now. > >BUT there is more CHANCE of it being supported. I don't think there is any evidence whatsoever that this is true. Prior to the invention of the GPL, mod.sources was doing good business. Even my own experiences with Shadow and Linux indicates that non-GPL'd code gets supported by someone. In particular, Ed Carp and Peter MacDonald both did excellent work). What the GPL does that the other "free" copyrights don't do is create the environment for anyone to hack and slash the code as they see fit. If you've ever tried to maintain logical consistency of a large software package when people are clamouring for new features, you can imagine what this is like. >>If a piece of software becomes useful or popular enough it will stick >>around and be supported *regardless* of the copyright/license. Look at X >>and BSD. > >Ah, but for a piece of ``non-commercial-use-only'' software, this may well >be ILLEGAL!!!! "Commercial" restrictions are an entirely separate issue. -- John F. Haugh II [ NRA-ILA ] [ Kill Barney ] !'s: ...!cs.utexas.edu!rpp386!jfh Ma Bell: (512) 251-2151 [GOP][DoF #17][PADI][ENTJ] @'s: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org There are three documents that run my life: The King James Bible, the United States Constitution, and the UNIX System V Release 4 Programmer's Reference. ------------------------------ From: axb@defender.dcrl.nd.edu (Arindam Banerji) Subject: Re: Tired question (PS/2 availability) Date: 27 Feb 1994 07:27:23 GMT Peple at IBM T.J Watson Research are working on the port. They were delayed slightly, because I took a long time in writing up and sending them some routines for the PS/2 ESDI driver. But I suspect that work is in progress. ============================================================================= Arindam Banerji (219)-631-5273 (Voice) 384 FitzPatrick Hall (219)-631-5772 (Voice) Dept. of Computer Science and Engineering (219)-273-0862 (Voice) University of Notre Dame (219)-631-9260 (FAX) Notre Dame, IN 46556 axb@cse.nd.edu (E-mail) ============================================================================= ------------------------------ From: kjetilho@ifi.uio.no (Kjetil Torgrim Homme) Crossposted-To: gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: Specialix driver Date: 27 Feb 1994 07:58:36 GMT ++--- Kjetil T. Homme: || So _you_ would never buy a Specialix product, or if you did, you || would start working on a free driver. If we get commercial || companies to develop drivers _in_addition_ to all the voluntary || work, we will all benefit. +--- Doug DeJulio: | Please explain -- how will *I* benefit? +--- You may not benefit, but you won't lose anything. You can now buy a Specialix board and get a driver to go with it. If the driver doesn't work, you can take your board back or write a better driver yourself. For most other hardware, you get just the hardware, and it is *your* responsibility to make it work with Linux. Now, if the product in question was a pure software product like, say, Stacker, there might be less of an incentive to write a free version (I don't really think so myself, but I can sympathise with such a view). However, a driver for some piece of hardware is almost an integral part of the hardware itself. Kjetil T. ------------------------------ From: brad@slammer.atl.ga.us (Brad Isley) Subject: Re: PLEASE use the GPL Date: Sun, 27 Feb 1994 06:18:32 GMT In article brad@slammer.atl.ga.us (Brad Isley) writes: >In article <1994Feb24.051058.1397@super.org> becker@super.org (Donald J. Becker) writes: >>In article , >>Brad Isley wrote: >>>seriously confused. If you think this is unprofessional, I invite you >>>to get a clue. You're obviously ignorant and/or unexperienced. >> >>Hmmm, we should take a poll. Is Russ Nelson >> ( ) ignorant >> ( ) inexperienced > >Oh, well. An apology is in order here. Sorry, Russ. > >What I meant to say was more like "If you believe the GPL is the only way to >go, ..." Open foot. Insert mouth. But nobody believes the GPL is the only >way to go, right? :-) > >Again, sorry. Once more I study what I wrote and see a need for amendment. I said, "If you think this is unprofessional, ... You are obviously..." The "You are obviously ..." is dependant upon the "If you think this [wanting to be paid some portion of commercial sales of your software] is unprofessional." I didn't write it this way, bit that's how I meant it. I stand by this meaning. I don't think Russ thinks this is unprofessional. I hope I'm right. Becker's follow-up made me think I was unconditionally calling Russ immature or ignorant. This was not the intent. -peace -- brad@slammer.atl.ga.us (Brad Isley) +1 404 925-9663(H) 493-2484(W) ------------------------------ From: ajh@zeus.achilles.org (Andrew Hutton) Subject: Re: effectiveness of cache ram? Date: 26 Feb 1994 22:45:19 GMT : There are many many things that are better than having more cache. I've : got a 486/33 board with 64k cache -- I used to have 486/33 256k and I : never missed it at all..... Try putting more than 8 megs on the board... For 32 megs you need 256K. -- Achilles Online - Providing AFFORDABLE Internet Services to Ottawa, ONT (613)824-2706 (613)824-6807 (613)841-0513 (613)841-0585 (613)841-0524 ** INTERACTIVE Internet accounts available as of April 1st, 1994** ------------------------------ From: lam836@cs.cuhk.hk (Savio Lam) Subject: Finding new maintainer for dialog Reply-To: lam836@cs.cuhk.hk Date: Sun, 27 Feb 1994 09:32:54 GMT Hello all, I am the author of a program called dialog. For those who don't know, dialog is a program that can be used to display dialog boxes using a curses/ncurses interface from a shell script. It is used by Slackware 1.1.2 for the 'color144' setup program. Due to some personal reasons, I find I can't spend as much time as before on dialog. Since I don't want to hold to development of dialog just because of me, I am seeking a new maintainer for dialog. My requirement is simple: dialog *must* remain freely available to everyone (I prefer the GPL), and that my name as the original author should be mentioned in the sources and in appropriate places in the documents (e.g. the man page, the README). Of course, the new maintainer can add his own name to it. Also, first priority should be given to Linux (i.e. It *must* run under Linux, porting to other Unices is of second priority). Anyone who is willing to look into the code of dialog and do modifications to it can do the job. If he's not familiar with curses programming, he can find another person to work with him. In other words, I don't mind how many are working on dialog, as long as they are cooperating with each other. Please send me a mail if you are interested. I will forward mails I've got about suggestions send in, so that you can decide on which features to add in the next version. Savio -- ############################################################################### # | _ # # ------------------------------- | _| |_ # # Lam Lai Yin, Savio | |_ _| # # | | | # # Internet: lam836@cs.cuhk.hk | / \ Can't live with DOS? # # Department of Computer Science | | DOS | # # Chinese University of Hong Kong | | | Try Linux... # # ------------------------------- | | | # # | ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ # ############################################################################### ------------------------------ From: tzs@u.washington.edu (Tim Smith) Subject: Re: PLEASE use the GPL Date: 27 Feb 1994 12:26:11 GMT Nate Williams wrote: >>Modifying the GPL is not a really good idea unless you're a lawyer. > >Actually, I believe it's not allowed. Yeah, but you could make a license that is similar, but differs in those areas where you think the GPL should be modified. The copyright on the GPL covers its expression of the terms of the license, but it does not cover those terms themselves. The best way to do this would be to make a list of the rights, restrictions, and obligations spelled out in the GPL. Delete those you don't want. Add any new ones you want. Then give the list to a lawyer and tell him or her to write a license agreement for you. --Tim Smith ------------------------------ From: tzs@u.washington.edu (Tim Smith) Subject: Re: Specialix driver Date: 27 Feb 1994 12:51:40 GMT Robert Sanders wrote: >I'm surprised that with the recent silliness over the Shadow suite that >you haven't heard some of the more recent interpretations. RMS and >others maintain that any program written to use an interface which >is solely available under the GPL is to be considered a derived work. >For example, if the only C library were glibc, and it was under the GPL >and not the GLPL, until someone wrote a non-GPL'ed libc, any code that >used printf() would be a derived work. For more on this, ask about >the gmp debacle on gnu.misc.discuss. RMS (if he really maintains that) and others are wrong. If anyone has any legal arguments that they are *not* wrong, I'd love to hear them. I've been looking for a topic for a paper I have to write, and a legal analysis of the gmp debacle would be good. However, for the paper to be any good, I need arguments for both sides, and so far everything I've found says that FSF was wrong. --Tim Smith ------------------------------ From: tzs@u.washington.edu (Tim Smith) Subject: Re: Specialix driver Date: 27 Feb 1994 13:16:32 GMT Donald J. Becker wrote: >under the copyright. It *is* a derivative work because it required the >unique existing GPL code to develop it. Few readers would disagree that a That's not what "derivative work" means. To be a derivative work, it must in some form incorporate a copyrighted portion of the work it is alleged to a derivative work of. --Tim Smith ------------------------------ From: rg@kirk.in-berlin.de (Achim Reckeweg) Subject: Problems with shared Libs Date: 27 Feb 1994 09:22:41 -0000 Hi all together, recently I upgraded my libraries to 4.5.19 and gcc to 2.5.8. Afterwards I have problems with a bunch of programs which I tracked down to a problem probably regarding shared libs. As an example the xrolodex program runs without any problem with lib 4.4.4 after upgrading it dumps core. I ran strace on it and get the following list: >> strace xrolodex uselib("/lib/ld.so") = 0 getgid() = 100 getegid() = 100 stat("/etc/ld.so.cache", [dev 8 3 ino 1914 nlnks 1 ...]) = 0 open("/etc/ld.so.cache", RDONLY, 144) = 3 mmap(0, 899, READ, SHARED, 3, 0) = 0x40000000 close(3) = 0 access("/lib/libXm.so.1", 0) = 0 uselib("/lib/libXm.so.1") = 0 access("/lib/libXt.so.3", 0) = 0 uselib("/lib/libXt.so.3") = 0 access("/lib/libX11.so.3", 0) = 0 uselib("/lib/libX11.so.3") = 0 access("/lib/libc.so.4", 0) = 0 uselib("/lib/libc.so.4") = 0 munmap(0x40000000, , 899, ) = 0 - [SIGSEGV] + [SIGSEGV] This is the same on every program I have problems with. Then I compiled xrolodex as static and.... no problem anymore worked like before. Any clue?? Thanks Achim -- Achim Reckeweg | Ci$: 100065,37 Berlin, Germany | email: rg@kirk.in-berlin.de ------------------------------ From: Mitchum DSouza Subject: Re: Alpha release of message catalog command and functions Date: 27 Feb 1994 08:50:56 -0500 Reply-To: Mitchum.Dsouza@mrc-apu.cam.ac.uk John F. Haugh II says: | I've been wanting to add National Language Support to Shadow for some | time now but there is no freely redistributable NLS package that I am | aware of. I found some stuff in an old hacked up ELM directory, but | it didn't look to be complete. This isn't what I'd call "complete", | but it's better than anything I've found. And it includes a sample | message catalog for the three commands that are included. .....[shar file deleted]....... You should have consulted before you started this. NLS has been implemented and integrated into libc ever since libc-4.4.4. It seems you have wasted you time somewhat. It is based on the ELM version - which is incidentally freely distributed - and I have sent my patches to make it even faster back to the author. The integration is complete now with full support for LC_MESSAGES in setlocale() and quite a few people are using it with Polish/German/French system messages already translated. At the moment only a few applications use it (ELM being one) and it seemed a good idea to make it catalog compatible with already existing applications. I have posted a more simple application to sunsite.unc.edu (hostid.tar.gz) which has NLS support to help people along. If someone had the time it would be wonderful if the all the GNU stuff were Internationalized and passed back to them as there exists very little NLS'ed applications, and people don't realize that support for NLS in Linux even exists - you for one :-) Mitch ===== mitchum.dsouza@mrc-apu.cam.ac.uk ------------------------------ ** FOR YOUR REFERENCE ** The service address, to which questions about the list itself and requests to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, is: Internet: Linux-Development-Request@NEWS-DIGESTS.MIT.EDU You can send mail to the entire list (and comp.os.linux.development) via: Internet: Linux-Development@NEWS-DIGESTS.MIT.EDU Linux may be obtained via one of these FTP sites: nic.funet.fi pub/OS/Linux tsx-11.mit.edu pub/linux sunsite.unc.edu pub/Linux End of Linux-Development Digest ******************************