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Subject: Linux-Activists Digest #212
From: Digestifier <Linux-Activists-Request@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU>
To: Linux-Activists@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Reply-To: Linux-Activists@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Date: Wed, 8 Sep 93 19:13:16 EDT
Linux-Activists Digest #212, Volume #6 Wed, 8 Sep 93 19:13:16 EDT
Contents:
Re: NeXTStep & Linux (John B Greimann)
Re: NeXTStep & Linux (John B Greimann)
Re: Can you port Linux to my Refrigerator? (Dan Newcombe)
A new user of LINUX (want to run DOS and make apps) (ALEJANDRO LENGUA VEGA)
Emacs 19 (or 18) w/o X support? (Jaye Mathisen)
Re: Can you port Linux to my Refrigerator? (Jason Uberig)
dosemu question (Mark Diers)
Re: A new user of LINUX (want to run DOS and make apps) (Dan Newcombe)
Re: Bootdisk made by SLS install hangs during boot (Thomas J Bilan)
Traceroute (JOSEPH@ob.missouri.edu)
Remapping backspace as del in X11 (Thomas J Bilan)
Re: TCSH -- no pwd? (Daniel Quinlan)
Re: Can you port Linux to my Refrigerator? (Rich Mulvey)
2 IDE Drives ? (Roy Davis)
Re: Can you port Linux to my Refrigerator? (Jack Coats)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: greimann@chopin.udel.edu (John B Greimann)
Subject: Re: NeXTStep & Linux
Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1993 18:43:27 GMT
>>It took me less than an hour to setup the networking on my NeXT. I
>>can now log into it from my Macintosh with NCSA Telnet. On my linux box
>>I've been trying to get the thing to even recognize my host's name and
>>the ethernet card for about 2 weeks.
This is ever so true! For a while last year I spent a lot of time playing
around with Linux and connected it to my NeXT and got it networked, etc.
To set up the network, MOST of the time spent was getting Linux configured,
and then it was setting up flat files and the /etc/rc.net script, etc...
major pain in the ass! I learned networking, but that stuff is just not
ready for prime time. On the NeXT it was cake...just add the ip address and
hostname...NFS was easy and more reliable, too.
>>
>>> It's deadly slow on a NeXT itself. It requires a 486/66 with eisa, 16
>>meg ram,
>>> and 2 meg on the video card to run half-way decent monochrome graphics.
>> With
>>> linux on a box like that, it'd be incredibly fast. While I have not
>>seen the
>>> Intel port in action, whaddya bet it's terribly slow on even that setup?
>>
>>About 80-90% on (supposedly) of the Video speed.
I'm using an Epson Progression at work with 2 megs of VRAM and it's doing
1024x768 in 16 bit color...and it's quite snappy. And if you don't need
color, 8-bit greyscale looks really good and is really fast.
No, this machine is NOT slow!
It does NOT require EISA for good performance and 16 megs is commonplace
these days...I had a 386-40 with 16 megs for Linux and a 32 meg NeXTStation
Color...sure, the station needed more memory, but it was a hell of a lot
easier to use and way more useful. All the NEXTSTEP machines in my office
are ISA machine with LocalBus video...none are slow!
>>
>>> for, compared to most unices. What is available? No X11 stuff will be
>>> easy to port -- it'll have to be completely re-written.
One other thing that Linux taught me...I don't want to have anything to do with
X...it sucks!
>>
>>There are several ports of X to the NeXT: 2 Public domain (MouseX, and
>>one
>>by Tufts University). There are at least 2 commercial versions, that
>>support Motiff, available (Pencom's Co-Xist, and eXedous).
>>
>>> There isn't that much commercial software out there for it, and what
>>>there is is very expensive.
>>
>>True, but the same can be said for almost all unices.
>>
>> later,
>> James
>
>
--Brandon
------------------------------
From: greimann@chopin.udel.edu (John B Greimann)
Subject: Re: NeXTStep & Linux
Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1993 18:53:32 GMT
In article <1.12265.2381.0N27952C@satalink.com> john.will@satalink.com (John Will) writes:
>J >It took me less than an hour to setup the networking on my NeXT. I
>J >can now log into it from my Macintosh with NCSA Telnet. On my linux box
>J >I've been trying to get the thing to even recognize my host's name and
>J >the ethernet card for about 2 weeks.
>
>That's more of an indictment of your expertise than a criticism of Linux,
>if you read the FAQ's and followed your nose, you'd have been networking
>long ago. Two weeks is ridiculous.
Two weeks is a long time...but initially it took me a while to get networking
up and running...too much digging around the FAQ and stuff. Once I got it
going, though, it was cake. At one point, we added a machine in the basement,
but had to run wire and set up the files...we did the entire installation
in about 5 minutes (including running the wire!)
--Brandon
------------------------------
From: dnewcomb@cybernet.cse.fau.edu (Dan Newcombe)
Subject: Re: Can you port Linux to my Refrigerator?
Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1993 18:37:58 GMT
Steve.Yelvington@launchpad.unc.edu (Steve Yelvington) writes:
> In article <QUINLAN.93Sep8132001@rose.cs.bucknell.edu> quinlan@spectrum.cs.bu
> >This "port Linux to everything thing phenomenon" is rather silly. Why
> >on Earth would you want to port it to anything nobody uses anymore? I
> >don't want to know how slow any Unix would run on my Commodore 128
> >(yes I still have a working one). I know that we aren't all made of
> >gold, but 386's are dirt cheap these days.
You have to remember how Linux started - as an experiment into playing with
the TSS properties of the 386. And from there it kinda expanded (a tiny bit
:)
Personally, I think it'd be great to have linux on different computers,
especially cheap ones - that way I can run a connection right to the toilet
and have my ZX81 hooked up to a sony Watchman, and whistle while I ....
But the main problem is what would have to be ported:
The kernel - a lot of which is 386 specific.
The Drivers - see above
The Utils - not as bad, just a recompile once you port
GCC - ugh. Even though it is out for different
architectures, you'd still have to do a linux port.
X386 - Hmmm....I see a problem in the name itself.
XZ80 anyone?
Once you get done with all these, or even just the Kernel and GCC, it's
not really Linux anymore :(
-Dan
------------------------------
From: 892388@cenco.ulima.pe (ALEJANDRO LENGUA VEGA)
Subject: A new user of LINUX (want to run DOS and make apps)
Date: 8 Sep 1993 14:47:45 -0500
Hi people there,
I write because I want to be a user of LINUX, I have read that it can run
DOS applications, thanks to a DOS emulation (it is true?) I am taking about
the version 0.98
I also claims come with and XR11 graphic interface, how good is it?
I am going (if I change) to make Pascal and C applications, and if possible
with Network (LAN) support. I would appreciate If you give a more personal
presentation of this UNIX to me.
Can LINUX make multitasking? even with DOS apps?
Can it run System V apps? Can it be installed in a DOS formated harddisk?,
does exist a dual boot utility?
If you some FAQS send me them please....
Because I am running a BBS and if possible, I will change from MSDOS to
LINUX and run it from it. So LINUX could be a 'boooom' in the non actualized
pc community (I am talking about students), that think that DOS with 386 are
the most powerful plattform for low end applications. With LINUX maybe they
can make high end apps.
THanks and bye
ALEJANDRO LENGUA
<892388@cenco.ulima.pe>
------------------------------
From: osyjm@cs.montana.edu (Jaye Mathisen)
Subject: Emacs 19 (or 18) w/o X support?
Date: 8 Sep 1993 19:50:10 GMT
Argh, I will not be running X on my laptop, but I need emacs, and don't have
the disk space on my notebook to compile it myself.
Anybody know of 18.59 or 19.19 compiled w/o needing the X shared libs?
Any tips appreciated muchly. Thanks.
(Preferably in a Slackware/SLS disk package format, but I can live with
anything).
--
Jaye Mathisen, COE Systems Manager (406) 994-4780
410 Roberts Hall,Dept. of Computer Science
Montana State University,Bozeman MT 59717 osyjm@cs.montana.edu
------------------------------
From: uberig@gfx.engga.uwo.ca (Jason Uberig)
Subject: Re: Can you port Linux to my Refrigerator?
Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1993 19:45:20 GMT
In article <QUINLAN.93Sep8132001@rose.cs.bucknell.edu> quinlan@spectrum.cs.bucknell.edu writes:
>
>uberig@gfx.engga.uwo.ca (Jason Uberig) writes:
>
>> I browsed the group and didn't see any Atari related stuff. It sure
>
>You know, I think that Linux should be ported to my refrigerator. I
>mean, it already has many built in features similar to Unix and I
>think that these facts should make a port simple.
>
>If anyone knows where I can find someone else wanting to port Linux to
>refrigerators, please mail me so we can start work right away!
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Back to reality.
>
>This "port Linux to everything thing phenomenon" is rather silly. Why
>on Earth would you want to port it to anything nobody uses anymore? I
>don't want to know how slow any Unix would run on my Commodore 128
>(yes I still have a working one). I know that we aren't all made of
>gold, but 386's are dirt cheap these days.
>
>Dan
>
>--
>--------------------------------
>Daniel Quinlan
>quinlan@spectrum.cs.bucknell.edu
Daniel,
I really find it quite obnoxious that whenever someone asks a relatively
harmless question someone else (you) has to jump on it. I have as much humour
as anyone, but I honestly don't think that it's such a 'silly' thing to
consider porting Unix to the Atari line of things. In fact, if someone
has the source I'd be willing to hack away at it myself. Now on the point
of your Commodore 128 - yep, that system would be hard pressed to run a
Unix port. Btw, sure Linux was written for PC computers, but it's a
shame that people can't be more open-minded about other systems. I'm not
asking you to buy them, but it'd be nice if you gave them a chance. You
don't see me bashing the PC line - although, after having worked for IBM
I'm sure I could rightfully come up with many gripes.
Well, I've wasted enough bandwidth on this so I'll leave it at that. If
you feel that you've got something more to say about this please do it by
e-mail. No one likes a thread going on about personal disputes.
Thanks,
Jason.
--
+---------------+------------------------------------------------------+
| Jason Uberig | E-mail: uberig@gfx.engga.uwo.ca |
| "Nothing is impossible, just some things are more improbable." |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
------------------------------
From: UD068690@NDSUVM1.BITNET (Mark Diers)
Subject: dosemu question
Date: 8 Sep 93 19:46:34 GMT
Hello,
I am running an application under dosemu (v0.49) and am receiving:
Interupt vector x'5C' in use.
Is there a way to reserve the interupt vector before entering the
emulator? Or if anybody recognizes the interupt, is it possible to
not execute the module responsible for the interupt before entering
into the emulator?
mark diers
technical services
mark@rs1.cc.und.nodak.edu
------------------------------
From: dnewcomb@cybernet.cse.fau.edu (Dan Newcombe)
Subject: Re: A new user of LINUX (want to run DOS and make apps)
Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1993 20:49:37 GMT
892388@cenco.ulima.pe (ALEJANDRO LENGUA VEGA) writes:
> I write because I want to be a user of LINUX, I have read that it can run
> DOS applications, thanks to a DOS emulation (it is true?) I am taking about
> the version 0.98
Most recent version - 0.99 patchlevel 12
Yes, it can run a good bit of dos apps with the emulator.
> I also claims come with and XR11 graphic interface, how good is it?
X11R5, from the MIT sources. It can be as good as you can make it with
whatever you add. (Window Managers, apps...)
> I am going (if I change) to make Pascal and C applications, and if possible
> with Network (LAN) support. I would appreciate If you give a more personal
> presentation of this UNIX to me.
C is the native language. There is a program that will convert pascal code
to C. As for lan support. All I know of is Ethernet. It would be nice if
it could interface with Novell... :)
> Can LINUX make multitasking? even with DOS apps?
Yes, Linux is multitasking. It can multitask even if you have DOS apps
running. You can even run more than one instance of the dos emulator,
though it's probably not a good idea.
> Can it run System V apps? Can it be installed in a DOS formated harddisk?,
> does exist a dual boot utility?
Don't know about the first one. You should be able to compile them easily,
but I'm not sure about running the direct binaries. No, it can't be
installed on a DOS partition, but it can access them. Yes, there is a boot
utility.
> If you some FAQS send me them please....
FTP to tsx-11.mit.edu in the directory /pub/linux/docs
They should be there.
> Because I am running a BBS and if possible, I will change from MSDOS to
> LINUX and run it from it. So LINUX could be a 'boooom' in the non actualized
> pc community (I am talking about students), that think that DOS with 386 are
> the most powerful plattform for low end applications. With LINUX maybe they
> can make high end apps.
Depends on what you call high end and low end apps. Personally, I think
Ultima Underworld is a high-end app. :)
-Dan
------------------------------
From: bilan@indian.uucp (Thomas J Bilan)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.os.linux.help,comp.os.linux.admin
Subject: Re: Bootdisk made by SLS install hangs during boot
Date: 8 Sep 1993 21:11:30 GMT
In article <26k71pINN5qf@wiesel.mch.sni.de> Wolfgang.Roth@graphics.ap.mchp.sni.de writes:
>
>In article <cornell.747335005@texas> cornell@syl.dl.nec.com writes:
>>SLS version: 1.03
>>Machine1: NEC Powermate 386
>>Machine2: Amax PC/386
>>
>>I've installed the SLS v.1.03 release on three machines. The two
>>listed above had the same trouble after installing, making a
>>bootdisk, and trying to boot from that bootdisk.
>
>I have the same problems on 3 machines (2*486 and 1*386) when I
>tried to boot from the original 3,5" bootdisk in driva A. The
>loading stops after the message "Detecting soundcard: AdLib
>(type 3)". I have no soundcards installed.
>
>
>--- Wolfgang Roth
>
I had that original problem and I disappeared when I removed
my NE2000 ethernet card. I think my problem was that it was
trying to autoconfig for a WD ethernet card and that
conflicted with my setting on the ethernet card.
Than again, if you don't have an ethernet card then I guess
that can't be it.
Tom Bilan
--
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
$ Department of Death by Engineering ^ Surgeon General's Warning: $
$ Michigan State University ^ Graduate School may cause brain $
$ bilan@cps.msu.edu ^ damage and sporadic loss of hair $
------------------------------
From: JOSEPH@ob.missouri.edu
Subject: Traceroute
Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1993 21:07:23 GMT
Enquired mind would like to know the meaning of the three number output
by the traceroute!!! Can any kind soul would care to enlighten me??
Thanks!!
Traceroute sunsite
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX 154 ms (tt1) 33 ms (tt1) 25 ms (tt1)
------------------------------
From: bilan@cps.msu.edu (Thomas J Bilan)
Subject: Remapping backspace as del in X11
Date: 8 Sep 1993 21:36:57 GMT
Does anyone know how I can remap the backspace key as
the delete key in an xterm window?
My TERMCAP variable is = vs but I don't know what entries I have to
change in /etc/termcap to get it to work.
Thanks,
Tom Bilan
--
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
$ Department of Death by Engineering ^ Surgeon General's Warning: $
$ Michigan State University ^ Graduate School may cause brain $
$ bilan@cps.msu.edu ^ damage and sporadic loss of hair $
------------------------------
From: quinlan@ivory.cs.bucknell.edu (Daniel Quinlan)
Subject: Re: TCSH -- no pwd?
Date: 08 Sep 1993 22:05:24 GMT
Reply-To: quinlan@spectrum.cs.bucknell.edu
A good version of pwd (source and man page) can be found at
sunsite.unc.edu:/pub/Linux/utils/shell/pwd.tar.gz
--
================================
Daniel Quinlan
quinlan@spectrum.cs.bucknell.edu
------------------------------
From: rich@mulvey.com (Rich Mulvey)
Subject: Re: Can you port Linux to my Refrigerator?
Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1993 18:19:03 EDT
quinlan@spectrum.cs.bucknell.edu writes:
>
> uberig@gfx.engga.uwo.ca (Jason Uberig) writes:
>
>> I browsed the group and didn't see any Atari related stuff. It sure
>> would be nice to see a port of Linux for the Atari ST/Falcon/etc. Is/has
>> anyone done this yet? I've heard a few rumors, but nothing substantial
>> yet.
>
> You know, I think that Linux should be ported to my refrigerator.
Oh, come on. That would make it incompatible with your toaster that
runs Cairo!
- Rich
--
Rich Mulvey Amateur Radio: N2VDS 787 Elmwood Terrace
rich@mulvey.com Rochester, NY 14620
------------------------------
From: davisrj@arts.dfrf.nasa.gov (Roy Davis)
Subject: 2 IDE Drives ?
Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1993 22:49:48 GMT
Hi all,
I'm just about ready to toss linux on my 386 (waiting for that new hard
drive to get here). Looked at this group for the fist time today and saw
something about 5-600 articles old about a problem with linux and 2 IDE
hard drives. I was hoping to just add the new drive in as the second
without changing the first so could somebody tell me exactly what the problem
was. I think it had to do with using LILO to boot from the different
partitions (something I hope to do).
- Roy
--
The following is the sig that would appear if I knew what he was doing:
=========================================================================
= Roy Davis is : = TTFN - VF102 =
= davisrj@arts.dfrf.nasa.gov = Neophyte (ne-o-fite) - =
= davisrj@arts2.dfrf.nasa.gov = newbie + <2 years exp =
=========================================================================
------------------------------
From: zjoc01@hou.amoco.com (Jack Coats)
Subject: Re: Can you port Linux to my Refrigerator?
Reply-To: zjoc01@hou.amoco.com
Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1993 16:16:42 CDT
In article 6051@julian.uwo.ca, uberig@gfx.engga.uwo.ca (Jason Uberig) writes:
>>In article <QUINLAN.93Sep8132001@rose.cs.bucknell.edu> quinlan@spectrum.cs.bucknell.edu writes:
>>>
>>>uberig@gfx.engga.uwo.ca (Jason Uberig) writes:
>>>
>>>> I browsed the group and didn't see any Atari related stuff. It sure
>>>
>>>You know, I think that Linux should be ported to my refrigerator. I
>>>mean, it already has many built in features similar to Unix and I
>>>think that these facts should make a port simple.
>>>
>>>If anyone knows where I can find someone else wanting to port Linux to
>>>refrigerators, please mail me so we can start work right away!
>>>
>>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>Back to reality.
>>>
>>>This "port Linux to everything thing phenomenon" is rather silly. Why
>>>on Earth would you want to port it to anything nobody uses anymore? I
>>>don't want to know how slow any Unix would run on my Commodore 128
>>>(yes I still have a working one). I know that we aren't all made of
>>>gold, but 386's are dirt cheap these days.
>>>
>>>Dan
>>>
>>>--
>>>--------------------------------
>>>Daniel Quinlan
>>>quinlan@spectrum.cs.bucknell.edu
>>
>>Daniel,
>>
>> I really find it quite obnoxious that whenever someone asks a relatively
>>harmless question someone else (you) has to jump on it. I have as much humour
>>as anyone, but I honestly don't think that it's such a 'silly' thing to
>>consider porting Unix to the Atari line of things. In fact, if someone
>>has the source I'd be willing to hack away at it myself. Now on the point
>>of your Commodore 128 - yep, that system would be hard pressed to run a
>>Unix port. Btw, sure Linux was written for PC computers, but it's a
>>shame that people can't be more open-minded about other systems. I'm not
>>asking you to buy them, but it'd be nice if you gave them a chance. You
>>don't see me bashing the PC line - although, after having worked for IBM
>>I'm sure I could rightfully come up with many gripes.
>>
>> Well, I've wasted enough bandwidth on this so I'll leave it at that. If
>>you feel that you've got something more to say about this please do it by
>>e-mail. No one likes a thread going on about personal disputes.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Jason.
>>
>>--
>>+---------------+------------------------------------------------------+
>>| Jason Uberig | E-mail: uberig@gfx.engga.uwo.ca |
>>| "Nothing is impossible, just some things are more improbable." |
>>+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
It may not be Linux, but even the vernible COCO from Radio $hark has run
OS9 (a Unix clone) for years...
---
--
Ideas: mine LawyerSpeak: theirs
------------------------------
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The current version of Linux is 0.99pl9 released on April 23, 1993
End of Linux-Activists Digest
******************************