531 lines
22 KiB
Plaintext
531 lines
22 KiB
Plaintext
From: Digestifier <Linux-Misc-Request@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu>
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To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu
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Reply-To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu
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Date: Fri, 23 Sep 94 13:13:41 EDT
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Subject: Linux-Misc Digest #807
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Linux-Misc Digest #807, Volume #2 Fri, 23 Sep 94 13:13:41 EDT
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Contents:
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Re: alt.games.doom.linux : vote for... (Peter Henry Mander)
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Linux/FreeBSD ISDN support (Neal Dalton)
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Re: More Memory = Slow Linux?? (Klaus R. Liedl)
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Re: The snatchability factor (was Re: WABI v (Simon)
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Re: How to use a host as a router - READ THIS (Jay Ashworth)
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Re: Don't use Linux; it's too academic! (Richard L. Goerwitz)
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Re: Reveal Sound FX Card (Hannu Savolainen)
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Re: Don't use Linux or it's to academic! (Hannu Savolainen)
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Re: P5-90 MHz beats SGI R4000-100MHz. (Andres Kruse)
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Re: Administration Shells ------------ 2nd Request!!!! [Answer?] (S. Keeling)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From: ssumnder@csug.cs.reading.ac.uk (Peter Henry Mander)
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Subject: Re: alt.games.doom.linux : vote for...
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Reply-To: ssumnder@csug.cs.reading.ac.uk
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Date: Thu, 22 Sep 1994 15:56:07 GMT
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I agree. The subject deserves a group of its own.
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Go for it!
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------------------------------
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Crossposted-To: comp.dcom.isdn,mn.general
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From: nrd@scrapie.med.umn.edu (Neal Dalton)
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Subject: Linux/FreeBSD ISDN support
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Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 14:24:53 GMT
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I called Digiboard about there ISDN board and asked if they supported
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Linux or FreeBSD. They told that they didn't support either, so I them
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why did not support and they told me they had seen the demand for it.
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They where planning on a SCO driver.
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So, I think everyone should, on principle, call Digiboard and tell them
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that they want this support.
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DigiBoard * 6400 Flying Cloud Drive, Eden Prairie, MN 55344 * (612) 943-9020 or (800) 344-4273 * FAX (612) 943-5398
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* E-Mail: info@digibd.com * Faxback Service: 612-943-0573 * WWW: http://www.digibd.com/
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European Office * DigiBoard GmbH * Domkloster 1, 50667 Koln Germany * +49 (0) 221 92052 0 * FAX: +49 (0) 221 92052 10
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* E-Mail: same as above
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DigiBoard-Asia Pte. Ltd. * Blk 19, Kallang Avenue #07-163, Singapore, 1233 * +65 292 5998 * FAX: +65 292 2701
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------------------------------
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From: krl@tci005.uibk.ac.at (Klaus R. Liedl)
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Subject: Re: More Memory = Slow Linux??
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Date: 23 Sep 1994 13:18:55 GMT
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Larry Pyeatt (pyeatt@cervesa.cs.colostate.edu) wrote:
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: In article <35pd26$2ft@fs7.ece.cmu.edu>, garcia@ece.cmu.edu (Brad Matthew Garcia) writes:
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: |>
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: |>
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: |> I keep seeing posts made by people who have added memory
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: |> to their computers and subsequently experienced a drop in
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: |> performance under Linux.
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: |>
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: |> I want to know if anyone knows *why* this happens. Please post
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: |> any replies to this newsgroup, since I believe others would also
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: |> be interested in hearing the answers. If you cannot post for
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: |> whatever reason, e-mail me (I will forward to the newsgroup if
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: |> you like).
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: OK. here is the scoop:
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: Most PC motherboards have really cheesy cache setups. The cache works
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: fine as long as you don't put too much RAM in. When you get too much
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: RAM, the cache does not work on the upper part, so on a 16 Meg system,
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: you may only have caching on the lower 8 Meg. If your cache RAM is 15ns
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: and your DRAM is 70ns, and your cache hit rate is 90% for the lower 8 Meg
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: and 0% for the upper 8 Meg, then your AVERAGE time for memory access is:
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: lower 8 Meg: .10 * 70 + .9 * 15 = 20.5 ns
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: upper 8 Meg: 1.0 * 70 + 0.0* 15 = 70 ns
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: overall: 45.25 ns
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: So, by adding the upper 8 Meg, you have more than doubled the AVERAGE time
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: to access memory. The cache makes a big difference.
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: The fix: upgrade your cache to 256K. Don't forget to upgrade the
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: cache tag RAM as well, or you will still get no benefit from the
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: additional cache. Some motherboards are so cheesy that it is
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: impossible to cache the whole address space, even with the maximum
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: cache RAM.
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Your calculation is nice, but I do not believe that this is the real problem.
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To give you an idea why I do not believe it:
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I have here running several different PCs under Linux.
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The main observation is:
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One of them has an old 486 board (25MHz) with no cache at all and it is very fast.
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There is no real difference to boards with large amounts of L2-cache.
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BTW I do not think that the L2-cache is essential for an OS like Linux.
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(I am not talking about DOS or doing number cranching under Linux ...).
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The point I want to make clear is simply:
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I guess that the performance problems with caching only a part of you
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main memory is more an organisational problem on your board than a problem
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with 70 ns ...
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Klaus
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--
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(Klaus.Liedl@uibk.ac.at)
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======================================
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LinuX the choice of the GNU-generation
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------------------------------
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From: Simon <sb91@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
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Crossposted-To: comp.sys.hp,comp.sys.hp.apps,comp.sys.sun.apps,comp.windows.x,comp.windows.x.apps,comp.unix.unixware
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Subject: Re: The snatchability factor (was Re: WABI v
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Date: 23 Sep 1994 14:02:18 +0100
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In <1994Sep14.081931.16107@ka4ybr.com> mah@ka4ybr.com (Mark A. Horton KA4YBR) writes:
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>Mark A. Davis (mark@taylor.infi.net) wrote:
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>: Again, there is no need for a Linux version of WP. The SCO version runs
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>: fine.... pester them for official support of running the SCO version
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>: under Linux IBCS/COFF (which is a possibility); don't bother worrying
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>: about a native Linux version because it WILL NOT HAPPEN.
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I'd agree with this... I can really see WP saying 'Hey, lets code a version of
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WP for Linux rather than use our current code that works' :)
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>product is not supported by WP corporation in the target environment, should
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>one purchase such a product and then manage to "make it work" through the
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>addition of software in no way connected with the original work (i.e. the
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>IBCS/COFF support) could the purchaser then return the purchased product for
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>a refund due to "lack of suitability" to the purchaser's environment and yet
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>still continue to use the "assisted" product which the vendor choses not
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>to support? Is this piracy? The product is not running in any "supported"
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Well, you have to remember what you are buying when you get a software package.
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A *license* to use it. This means that you are essentially buying the right to
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use the software package on one or more machines (naturally, this depends on
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the license. Normally you will pay more for a multi-user, often paying larger
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amounts for larger number of users (although I do like SunSoft licensing of
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Solaris, you have a 2 user license, or a multi-user license... multi-user being
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as many users has the machine can support at one time. Doesn't cost much either
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(*much* cheaper than SCOs license agreements)). So if you *did* return the
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product, and asked for a *full* refund, you would be using the software without
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a license, which is priacy. I guess you could ask if you could return the
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media the package came on, and ask for a refund on that... but somehow I don't
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think companies are going to let you do that. It would still be legal though, as
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you still have a license to use the product.
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As an aside, I know that Microsoft sells a license for their products, so you
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can legally use a copy, although I think that they intended it to be used to
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allow more people to use a legitimate copy of their software. It *is* cheaper
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than buying a completely new package, as you don't have the media and manual
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costs to pay.
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>Could prove an interesting situation. I personally don't give a damn...
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>don't use WP, don't like it, prefer nroff and troff with perhaps a bit
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>of LaTeX or idoc for some REALLY fancy stuff. But then I'll freely admit
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>to being an anachronistic old curmudgeon (before anyone else labels me!)
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Yep, I *used* to use WP, but when I got to this Unix box, I started to use
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LaTex (I also used a package that let me convert WP files to LaTex format as a
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stop gap (didn't like program code much at all) until I could learn LaTex
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properly). I can now do everything I could do with the windows versions of
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WP or Word, and in some cases, more (LaTex is *great* for maths :).
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--
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Simon
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------------------------------
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From: jra@zeus.IntNet.net (Jay Ashworth)
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Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development,comp.os.linux.admin,alt.uu.comp.os.linux.questions
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Subject: Re: How to use a host as a router - READ THIS
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Date: 23 Sep 1994 09:12:26 -0400
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fvm@tasking.nl (Frank van Maarseveen) writes:
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>> Destination Gateway Netmask Flags MSS iface
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>> 127.0.0.1 127.0.0.1 255.0.0.0 UH 1536 lo0
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>> 199.245.227.0 199.245.227.254 255.255.255.0 U 1436 eth0
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>> default 198.147.221.1 255.255.255.0 U 1436 ppp0
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>Why has the loopback route a destination 127.0.0.1 instead of 127.0.0.0
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>in accordance with the specified netmask?
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>The loopback interface could have IP address 127.0.0.1 and connect to
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>a loopback network 127.0.0.0 with netmask 255.0.0.0 (conceptually)
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And in practice, people who route the loopback _host_, and people who
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route the loopback _network_ seem evenly split. Perversely, Mmy machine
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_says_ it's routing the host, but any host on that net is loopback. Go
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figure...
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>About assigning the same IP address to multiple interfaces on the same
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>host:
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>One could argue that this is "correct" as long as the outer world cannot
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>see any difference. Consider all interfaces as one big specially designed
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>interface with the software (linux) hiding the differences. So, as long
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>as the software supports this concept it is correct IMHO.
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This depends, as you say, on whether the IP kernel code can make it's
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routing decisions based on interface name, rather than interface address.
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I gather some can, and I gather it's a new thing. Older (primarily
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4.2/3BSD) code apparently couldn't. I'm in the middle of rereading
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Leffler & McKusick, I should have a better answer than that shortly.
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Cheers,
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-- jra
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--
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Jay R. Ashworth High Technology Systems Comsulting Ashworth
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Designer Linux: The Choice of a GNU Generation & Associates
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ka1fjx/4
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jra@baylink.com "Hey! Do any of you guys know how to Madison?" 813 790 7592
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------------------------------
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From: goer@quads.uchicago.edu (Richard L. Goerwitz)
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Subject: Re: Don't use Linux; it's too academic!
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Reply-To: goer@midway.uchicago.edu
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Date: Thu, 22 Sep 1994 17:22:51 GMT
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mdw@cs.cornell.edu (Matt Welsh) writes:
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>>2. There are no programs available that does Word-processing, spreadsheets,
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>> databases, presentation graphics and so on, as we have under MS-DOS
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>> and Windows.
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>
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>False.
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Matt, don't be baited. The poster is clearly clueless. It is true that Unix
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software tends to be hard to support, hard to find, and more expensive than
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Windows or DOS-based counterparts. But this isn't the decisive factor for a
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lot of folks.
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>>9. Printed manuals and easy 'Get started' manuals does not exist.
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>
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>False.
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Again, I don't see how the stuff that's available for Linux can be compared
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to what there is for Windows or DOS (not that this stuff is much good, ei-
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ther - in fact, it's pretty funny how a lot of DOS software comes with manu-
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als so incomplete and badly written that you have to go out and buy a book
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guide just to figure out what is going on). Personally, I prefer the Linux
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on-line stuff, but that's not for everyone.
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>I don't give a damn whether this is "flame-bait" or not; I'm tired
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>of seeing this kind of misinformation propagated by people without
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>the faintest idea of what they're talking about. Please research your
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>claims in more detail before posting them to USENET.
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I'm not sure you can say that Linux multimedia support, or international-
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ization, or many other things, are as good as what you'd find on a Mac or
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under DOS/Windows. I'm particularly cognizant of the fact that Linux has
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no fully internationalized word processing, like what we find in MLS for
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DOS, or NISUS for the Mac, etc. But what is the point of Linux? Is it
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supposed to be another DOS? Don't think so. It's a traditional Unix
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kernel for traditional Unix uses - software development, TCP/IP, file
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servers, mail routers, etc.
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If someone wants to do word processing, then Linux clearly isn't the first
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choice. TeX is an 80s-style typesetter. Like looking at WordPerfect in
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"reveal codes" mode :-). Sure you can get WordPerfect for Linux, but this
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isn't even the lead version (6.0). Under Windows or on a Mac you just plug
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in MS-Word or whatever and go. And the Andrew editor, well, let's just say
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that it is minimal - nothing like the systems you can get for DOS/Win/Mac.
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Doesn't mean I'll trash my Linux partition, which has too many other uses.
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I just don't know how, for example, anyone could choose DOS or Windows as
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their development environment.
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--
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-Richard L. Goerwitz goer%midway@uchicago.bitnet
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goer@midway.uchicago.edu rutgers!oddjob!ellis!goer
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------------------------------
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From: hannu@voxware.pp.fi (Hannu Savolainen)
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Subject: Re: Reveal Sound FX Card
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Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 05:58:54 GMT
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nlc@cs.nott.ac.uk (Neil L Cook) writes:
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>I have a Reveal SoundFX card, model SC400. It supports Soundblaster
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>ProII, and MSS. I have it working just fine with Soundblaster Pro
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>support built into the kernel. However, the card supports 16 bit
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>sound.
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>My question is:
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>1) Will the Microsoft Sound System support in the newest kernel
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>support 16 bt sound using the MSS chip on my card?
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Yes it will (if you have some luck with IRQ and DMA settings).
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>2) Can I use this to play doom with 16bit sound? :-)
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Yes you can.
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Hannu
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--
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=============================
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Hannu Savolainen
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hannu@voxware.pp.fi
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"Don't use Windows since there is a door!"
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------------------------------
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From: hannu@voxware.pp.fi (Hannu Savolainen)
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Subject: Re: Don't use Linux or it's to academic!
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Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 06:19:43 GMT
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ianm@qualcomm.com (Ian McCloghrie) writes:
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>maxims@ucsee.EECS.Berkeley.EDU (Maxim Spivak) writes:
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>>In article <7PIWkunLQ994071yn@oslonett.no>,
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>>Svein Erik Brostigen <serik@oslonett.no> wrote:
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>>>When it comes to TokenRing and MCA based machines, well IBM is the
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>>>biggest player in the computer world no matter what you people of the
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>>>.edu thinks!
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>>Actually, to be fair, Microsoft is the biggest player in the computer
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>>world. IBM is really a has-been and may be will-be but definitely
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>>not-here. Of course this is in the US, not Norway.
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>In the home user PC market, yes. But in business, there's still a lot
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>of people using IBM mainframes and IBM PS/2s to connect to them. Not
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>as many as there were, granted, but there's still a lot out there.
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Linux and it's hardware support has been written by persons that use Linux
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themself. And usually these persons (including me) write the drivers mainly
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for fun. It's fun to write support just for hardware that I use
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myself and for which there is sufficient documentation available. Writing
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drivers for somebody else is not interesting at all as long as nobody pays
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for doing that.
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PS/2, MCA and Token Ring are technologies which are not used by persons
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writing Linux so it's no surprise that they are not supported. The fact that
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these technologies are widely used is not alone a sufficient reason to implement
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support for them. However Linux is free OS which means than any user of
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PS/2 or TokenRing has freedom to write the support (or to hire a ISA/ethernet
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hacker to do it).
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Hannu
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--
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=============================
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Hannu Savolainen
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hannu@voxware.pp.fi
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"Don't use Windows since there is a door!"
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------------------------------
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From: h28@nikhef.nl (Andres Kruse)
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Subject: Re: P5-90 MHz beats SGI R4000-100MHz.
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Date: 23 Sep 94 14:44:30 GMT
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Reply-To: h28@nikhefh.nikhef.nl (Andres Kruse)
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In article <CwJE4z.MGs@cerc.wvu.edu> lera@zeus.chem.wvu.edu (Valery Petrov) writes:
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>Some benchmarks comparison:
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>
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> DELL XPS-90 SGI with R4000 cpu (100MHz):
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>Integer: 19.2 sec. 23.3 sec.
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>Floating point: 200 sec. 199 sec.
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>
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>I used gcc-2.5.8 with Linux-1.1.51 on DELL's Pentium and C 3.18 with Irix 5.2
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>on Silicon Graphics machine. Programs were written in plain C using double precision
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>for floating point. Considering the price difference (similarly equipped SGI
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>is ~3 times more expensive) I wonder who whould like to buy those Indigos nowdays.
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Oh yeah? What about SGIs superb graphics ? What about the fact that you
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can put 256MB RAM in them (and it works! (have you ever seen a PC
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with > 64MB?)) ? What about ECC checked memory ? What about a >200MB/sec bus ?
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What if you want to develop code which runs then in parallel on SGI Challenges ?
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What if you want to have a *real* FORTRAN compiler ? What if you want to have
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perfect integration of AUDIO/VIDEO ? What if you want to use disk striping to get
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transfer rates of > 20MB/sec ?
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Remember that the Indigo is the low end of a rather big line of workstations.
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R4000SC is actually a processor which is already 2 years old and obsolete.
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The processor you should be comparing to is R4400@150Mhz which can be up
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to two times as fast depending on your code. And if you were using R8000
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your floating point speed would be almost four times as fast (looking
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at the SPEC FP92 numbers (Intel 815/100: ~80, PowerChallenge R8000: ~310).
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>
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>Valery Petrov.
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>Nonlinear Dynamics Research Group.
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>Department of Chemistry.
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>West Virginia University.
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--
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=======================================================================
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Andres Kruse | NIKHEF - National Institute for Nuclear Physics
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A.Kruse@nikhef.nl | and High-Energy Physics, Amsterdam, The Netherlands
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=======================================================================
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------------------------------
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From: keelings@wl.aecl.ca (S. Keeling)
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Crossposted-To: comp.unix.unixware
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Subject: Re: Administration Shells ------------ 2nd Request!!!! [Answer?]
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Date: 21 Sep 1994 11:46:53 -0500
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In article <35ntgv$bfu@toon.ctp.com>, Patrick Draper <pdrap@ctp.com> wrote:
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>
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>I am interested in knowing what administration shells exist for Linux.
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>I've asked this question before, but received nearly no response at all.
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>I am interested only in distribution quality shells that exist on FTP
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>sites for general use.
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Since you've heard from no-one about this, hopefully my
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addition to this thread won't overload your mailbox:
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--------------------- 8< snip ----------------------------
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Linux Projects Map
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This is the Linux Projects Map (LPM). Here you'll find some information
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concerning popular projects that are currently in the design or coding
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stage. The map supersedes the former Linux Projects-FAQ; the name "Map"
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[stuff deleted]
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The Linux Projects Map will be updated regularly and will be available on
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sunsite.unc.edu as /pub/Linux/docs/Projects-Map.gz. The latest and greatest
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version is always being kept on ftp.ix.de:/pub/Linux/docs/Projects-Map.gz.
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A HTML version will be eventually available on ftp.ix.de.
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[stuff deleted]
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Field: Description
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=========== ======================================================
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Title: Generic Linux System Admin Tool
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Desc1: A package of tools, accessed through a user-freindly
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Desc2: menu system for adminstrating, installing, and
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Desc3: configuring Linux distributions. Done in cooperation
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Desc4: with Linux International.
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Desc5:
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Author: Pat Spinler, Ross Becker, others whom I forget right now :(
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AuthorEmail: pats@einet.com
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InfoSources1: linux-config channel mailing list
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InfoSources2:
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InfoSources3:
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Assistance: assistance appreciated
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CurrentStat: in design
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ETA: optimal: Sept 94, conservative: Dec 94.
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Remarks1: Targeted to work with the major Linux distributions
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Remarks2: and probably any distrib conforming to the FSSTND.
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Remarks3: Might optionally be extended for different OS's such as
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Remarks4: Net/Free BSD later.
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Remarks5:
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Entered: 26 Aug 1994
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=============================== snip ===============================
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Title: Simple Linux System Manager
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Desc1: A SMIT like program, that let you manage your Linux system
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Desc2: without knowing about all those little System Administrator
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Desc3: tools that make a nightmare your life.
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Desc4: Good for newbies.
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Desc5:
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Author: Riccardo Facchetti writing the perl core and the dialog I/O
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AuthorEmail: riccardo@cdc8g5.cdc.polimi.it
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InfoSources1: Don't ask but on Usenet News, group comp.os.linux.admin,
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InfoSources2: don't expect any answer (i have too few time to read news
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InfoSources3: every day), Don't write by e-mail unless really important.
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Assistance: not required
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CurrentStat: first code runs
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ETA: conservative: end of 1994, maybe.
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Remarks1: The package is still in development, but the main core of
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Remarks2: I/O is finished. I've started to add functionality
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Remarks3: and i'm still open to new ideas (e-mail me if you think you
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Remarks4: have a good one).
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Remarks5:
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Entered: 26 Aug 1994
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=============================== snip ===============================
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Title: ALT - Administrators little tool
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Desc1: ALT is a Motif-based system administrators tool which
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Desc2: can be used for dealing with Software-packages, Users,
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Desc3: configuring Networks, etc.
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Desc4:
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Desc5:
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Author: Thomas Woerner
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AuthorEmail: twoerner@gris.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de
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InfoSources1: Email & WWW-page at
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InfoSources2: WWW: http://134.2.172.13:4711/alt.html/
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InfoSources3: Email: ALT@linus.zdv.uni-tuebingen.de
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Assistance: not required
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CurrentStat: first code runs
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ETA: maybe December 1994 until ALPHA (conservative ;-)
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Remarks1: Co-author: Christian Huettermann
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Remarks2: (huettermann@zdv.uni-tuebingen.de)
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Remarks3:
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Remarks4:
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Remarks5:
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Entered: 26 Aug 1994
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--------------------- 8< snip ----------------------------
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--
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keelings@wl.aecl.ca s. keeling, aecl - whiteshell labs
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------------------------------
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** FOR YOUR REFERENCE **
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The service address, to which questions about the list itself and requests
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to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, is:
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Internet: Linux-Misc-Request@NEWS-DIGESTS.MIT.EDU
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You can send mail to the entire list (and comp.os.linux.misc) via:
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Internet: Linux-Misc@NEWS-DIGESTS.MIT.EDU
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Linux may be obtained via one of these FTP sites:
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nic.funet.fi pub/OS/Linux
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tsx-11.mit.edu pub/linux
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sunsite.unc.edu pub/Linux
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End of Linux-Misc Digest
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******************************
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