598 lines
24 KiB
Plaintext
598 lines
24 KiB
Plaintext
From: Digestifier <Linux-Development-Request@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu>
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To: Linux-Development@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu
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Reply-To: Linux-Development@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu
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Date: Sat, 3 Sep 94 06:13:07 EDT
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Subject: Linux-Development Digest #110
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Linux-Development Digest #110, Volume #2 Sat, 3 Sep 94 06:13:07 EDT
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Contents:
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Re: Future of linux -- the sequel (Larry Pyeatt)
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Re: ext2fs corruption in 1.1.47-48 (Marino Ladavac)
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Strange kernel version information (Anders Ostling)
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Re: Strange kernel version information (Anders Ostling)
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Re: Linux console to SCO comp. prob (Jonathan Noel Tombs)
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Re: Future of linux -- the sequel (Donald Becker)
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Re: Unix, Unicode, and internationalization (Markus Kuhn)
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ext2fs floppy/82077 corruption with 1.1.49 (Gary Paul Gortmaker)
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Re: Kernel change summary 1.1.45 -> 1.1.46 (Steve DuChene)
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scancode terminal support (was:Re: Linux console to SCO comp. prob) (Keith Smith)
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Re: Linux console to SCO comp. prob (Keith Smith)
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Re: Linux console to SCO comp. prob (Keith Smith)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From: pyeatt@cervesa.cs.colostate.edu (Larry Pyeatt)
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Subject: Re: Future of linux -- the sequel
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Date: 2 Sep 1994 19:24:17 GMT
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In article <346dki$g5d@news.u.washington.edu>, mike@wavelet.apl.washington.edu (Mike Kenney) writes:
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|> In article <3456g5$1ekr@yuma.acns.colostate.edu>,
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|> Larry Pyeatt <pyeatt@CS.ColoState.EDU> wrote:
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|> >
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|> >Compare the price/performance of processors and Intel comes out to
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|> >make the worst processors in existence. PowerPC chips provide twice
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|>
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|> I have to disagree here. The price/performance of a Pentium PC is
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|> quite good (especially if you're running Linux :-).
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You are talking at the system level. I was talking at the processor level.
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What makes Pentium SYSTEMS cost effective is:
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1) volume and vendor independence
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2) Pentium systems in general:
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a) have lower resolution/slower video hardware
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b) have smaller hard disks
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c) have less RAM
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Do not confuse processor with system. The Power Macintosh
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uses a totally new and different processor from any of its
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predecessors and yet runs the SAME software and OS, and
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delivers much greater price/performance. The same can be
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done with the IBM style PC, although vendor independence
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may turn out to be a hindrance.
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Configure a Pentium system which is identical to an SGI
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Indy and they will have very similar price/performance,
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even though the Pentium PROCESSOR is more expensive
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than the MIPS processor.
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Here is a Pentium Machine which is configured similar to a
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$6500 Indy:
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99MhZ Pentium PCI bus motherboard $2500
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32Meg RAM $1000
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#9 GXE Level 12 video card $ 500
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ViewSonic 17 Monitor $1000
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Keyboard, 1.44M floppy, mouse, serial $ 300
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400Meg SCSI disk $ 350
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BusLogic SCSI controller $ 350
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Soundblaster $ 100
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Case and Power Supply $ 100
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Ethernet adaptor $ 200
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CCD camera $ ???
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Operating system $ ???
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-----
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$6400 minumum
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Note that, at the price shown, the PC will not do full motion video or
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capture images, nor will it be as fast overall as the SGI.
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|> One of the most important benefits is vendor independence, I can buy
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|> spare/replacement parts from anyone ... no need to purchase a
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|> maintenance contract. This was the big selling point for us, at one
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|> time our research group was paying $35k/year in maintenance on 4
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|> minicomputers.
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I am not advocating buying workstations. I am advocating replacing the
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PROCESSOR in the PC. There are now VL bus (and soon PCI) motherboards
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with RISC processors. These motherboards use inexpensive PC components.
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Why stick with the overpriced/underperforming Intels. Sure, DOS
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compatibility. Well, I don't use DOS or Windows, so that is not an
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issue for me. Maybe it is for some.
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------------------------------
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From: lan_lada@rcsw52 (Marino Ladavac)
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Subject: Re: ext2fs corruption in 1.1.47-48
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Date: Thu, 1 Sep 1994 09:36:26 GMT
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mlord@bnr.ca (Mark Lord) writes:
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: In article <shalafi.778344293@zetor.clinet.fi> shalafi@clinet.fi writes:
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: >mlord@bnr.ca (Mark Lord) writes:
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: >
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: >>In article <33vqh0$nrn@bigblue.oit.unc.edu> jem@bittyblue.oit.unc.edu writes:
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: >>>Hi,
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: >>>
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: >>>I've been having problems with files being corrupted under (at least) 1.1.47
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: >>>and 1.1.48 on an IBM/vp DX266 with 64Mb RAM and an Maxtor MXT-50 IDE disk
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: >>>with 16 sector multiple mode enabled. I would suspect the mult. mode but
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: >>>I ran it in the past with no corruption.
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: >>...
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:
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: >I've have the same problem. I have a 486DX2/66 and an Adaptec 1542CF
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: >with a Seagate disk.. As far as I know, I haven't turned a multiple
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: >mode on. (In fact, I'd like to know how to do that. Somebody mail me?)
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:
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: Ah. A SCSI system with similar symptoms. That makes it unlikely
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: to be IDE-multiplemode related, or for that matter, IDE or SCSI specific.
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: Thus, odds are improving that it is a filesystem problem.
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: (multiple-mode is for IDE *only*).
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:
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: >When a file is corrupted, it has perhaps 8, perhaps 10 (I never made
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: >a note about it) corrupted characters. They're placed so that EVERY
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: >OTHER character is corrupted with an uncorrupted character between.
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:
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: Mmm.. a potentially good clue, if you can reproduce it and then
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: post a real example, with the exact byte offset within the file
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: carefully noted.
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: --
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: mlord@bnr.ca Mark Lord BNR Ottawa,Canada 613-763-7482
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I have had the same problems while using teh 1542CF with 1.0, 1.0.9 and
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1.1.11. Eventually I've tested the thing by directly writing to one
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of the partitions on the SCSI drive (50 MB of incrementing chars written,
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then read, and the offending char's printed.) Some of the bits (usually
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only one per byte) get lost (inverted.) It happens both on writing
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and reading. I suspected a problem with 1542CF (driver or the cable) but
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it may not be. I have had no problems (knock wood :) on the same machine
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while using IDE drives (1.0, 1.0.9, 1.1.11, 1.1.45.) I shall have to
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check the behavior when only the card supplies the SCSI termination power,
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and when the drive is passively terminated (the drive, Adaptec and the
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cable live very happily in another machine devoted to OS/2 and DOS.)
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/Alby
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--
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Proof by Intimidation:
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"I'm bigger, therefore I'm right."
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noone@nowhere.in.particular
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------------------------------
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From: anos@elmrd6.ineab.ikea.se (Anders Ostling)
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Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help
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Subject: Strange kernel version information
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Date: 2 Sep 94 19:07:29 +0200
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Hi all
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I have spent most of today with applying patches 36 -- 45 on my Linux
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systems. No problems except the new asm-i386 directory. Strange problem
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until i read the latest faq...
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Anyway, my ../linux/Makefile and my ../linux/tools/version.h both agrees on
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V1.1.45. Regardless of this, my system says 1.1.35 after reboot (both in the
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boot message, login message, uname -a and /proc/version). So where on earth is
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that number coded in ? Does not really matter, but it's annoying to see 35
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when I know it's 45...
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/Anders
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--
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+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
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| Internet anos@ineab.ikea.se |
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| _ _ Voice +46-42-25 73 08, Fax 25 73 70, Attn: Anders Ostling |
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| \ \ \ IKEA Northern Europe AB, Sweden |
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| _/ _/ _/ |
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+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
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------------------------------
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From: anos@elmrd6.ineab.ikea.se (Anders Ostling)
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Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help
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Subject: Re: Strange kernel version information
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Date: 2 Sep 94 20:59:53 +0200
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In article <1994Sep2.190729.46@elmrd6.ineab.ikea.se>, anos@elmrd6.ineab.ikea.se (Anders Ostling) writes:
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> Hi all
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>
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> I have spent most of today with applying patches 36 -- 45 on my Linux
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> systems. No problems except the new asm-i386 directory. Strange problem
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> until i read the latest faq...
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>
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> Anyway, my ../linux/Makefile and my ../linux/tools/version.h both agrees on
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> V1.1.45. Regardless of this, my system says 1.1.35 after reboot (both in the
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> boot message, login message, uname -a and /proc/version). So where on earth is
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> that number coded in ? Does not really matter, but it's annoying to see 35
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> when I know it's 45...
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>
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Just to avoid misunderstandings; yes, I did a complete rebuild between each
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patch (make dep && make clean && make zlilo), and got new /vmlinuz images
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from each build. Makes it even more strange, yes ? :-)
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> /Anders
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>
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> --
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> +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
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> | Internet anos@ineab.ikea.se |
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> | _ _ Voice +46-42-25 73 08, Fax 25 73 70, Attn: Anders Ostling |
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> | \ \ \ IKEA Northern Europe AB, Sweden |
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> | _/ _/ _/ |
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> +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
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--
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+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
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| Internet anos@ineab.ikea.se |
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| _ _ Voice +46-42-25 73 08, Fax 25 73 70, Attn: Anders Ostling |
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| \ \ \ IKEA Northern Europe AB, Sweden |
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| _/ _/ _/ |
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+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
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------------------------------
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From: jon@obelix.cica.es (Jonathan Noel Tombs)
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Subject: Re: Linux console to SCO comp. prob
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Date: 2 Sep 1994 13:17:14 +0200
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In article <DMW.94Aug29102738@prism1.prism1.com>,
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> No, there are real problem when it comes to Linux's keyboard handling.
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>What I (and many other people) want is to be able to replace SCO with Linux
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>and not have the other people notice. Sure, I could use WPTERM to set up an
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>entry for Linux's console, I've done it many times for other terminals. But
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>I don't *want* a sperate entry for Linux. And I *can't* make an exact duplicate
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>for the SCO keyboard layout because Linux does not support enough key
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>combinations re: function keys. That is, SCO supports FKEY, S-FKEY, C-FKEY,
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>and C-S-FKEY. I want (and NEED) Linux to do this as well. Also, the keys that
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>Linux sends out are far too long for what they need to do and still be
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>unique. This causes problems with our in-house software because we use a
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>tree-based keyboard table to speed up recognition and we have a fixed
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>maximum size per fkey string we can handle. Yes, we could increase it, but why?
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what is the problem with the linux keymaping. I can generate 16 different
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characters/sequences per key as far as I am aware. linux seems to
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supports all shift/control/alt posabilities.
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What is it that SCO can do that linux not? Or is it just you haven't
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bothered using loadkeys and the default map defines some sequences as
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the same.
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Jon.
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------------------------------
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From: becker@cesdis.gsfc.nasa.gov (Donald Becker)
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Subject: Re: Future of linux -- the sequel
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Date: 3 Sep 1994 01:00:09 -0400
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In article <347u51$2ev5@yuma.acns.colostate.edu>,
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Larry Pyeatt <pyeatt@cervesa.cs.colostate.edu> wrote:
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>Here is a Pentium Machine which is configured similar to a
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>$6500 Indy:
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OK, I'll bite into this flame-fest.
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>99MhZ Pentium PCI bus motherboard $2500
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Errr, that's a little overpriced. Most places don't put the P100 parts in
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their price lists, but I've seen P90 PCI motherboards for under $1200.
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>32Meg RAM $1000
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72 pin SIMMs, same for both. This is a little unfair, since Linux systems
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use less memory than the SGI for most tasks. Try running the SGI window
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system with 8M of memory -- I've run Linux+X with 4M.
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>#9 GXE Level 12 video card $ 500
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You can get accelerated PCI video cards starting at $125. $200 will get 2M
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of video memory for 1200x1024x8 resolution. Price is very non-linear past
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that point. A major advantage is that you can choose which aspects of the
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system are important enough to pay extra for.
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>ViewSonic 17 Monitor $1000
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Perhaps a little high -- nice 17" monitors are around $850, and sleazy ones
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are $600. Monitors sold into the high-volume PC market tend to be priced
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more aggressively than similar monitors in the workstation market.
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>Keyboard, 1.44M floppy, mouse, serial $ 300
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Ackkk! You really are over estimating here. You can get all this for under
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$100. There are some very nice keyboards for under $30 (although few under
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$20 qualify as "nice" :->).
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>400Meg SCSI disk $ 350
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Same everwhere. On a PC-type system you have the *option* of lower cost
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IDE disks, which can perform quite well in one-drive systems. Say, $269 for
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540M?
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>BusLogic SCSI controller $ 350
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NCR PCI SCSI-2 controllers are $70. The $1300 P90 motherboards have it
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built in.
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>Soundblaster $ 100
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>Case and Power Supply $ 100
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As low as $40. I prefer a smaller case. Will your Indy let you put in the
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nine disk drives that some $100 cases will?
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>Ethernet adaptor $ 200
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Erk! Where are you getting these numbers? As low as $33, but plan on
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spending just under $100 for a PCI or VL bus one. Any how will you upgrade
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the Indy next year, when 100Mbs ethernet becomes common?
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>CCD camera $ ???
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>Operating system $ ???
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> -----
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> $6400 minumum
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That's just way more than a reasonable Linux box will cost.
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>Note that, at the price shown, the PC will not do full motion video or
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>capture images, nor will it be as fast overall as the SGI.
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That's true. I think the new SGI full motion thumbnail video is a really
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great toy, and their demo is amazing. If I wanted to do that kind of video
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work, I would get an SGI. But for many other kinds of work the Linux system
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would do as well or better, and be much less expensive.
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--
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Donald Becker becker@cesdis.gsfc.nasa.gov
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USRA-CESDIS, Center of Excellence in Space Data and Information Sciences.
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Code 930.5, Goddard Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, MD. 20771
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301-286-0882 http://cesdis.gsfc.nasa.gov/pub/people/becker/whoiam.html
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------------------------------
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From: mskuhn@cip.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Markus Kuhn)
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Subject: Re: Unix, Unicode, and internationalization
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Date: Thu, 1 Sep 1994 09:39:10 GMT
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Reply-To: mskuhn@cip.informatik.uni-erlangen.de
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rob@pe1chl.ampr.org (Rob Janssen) writes:
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>Some time ago, there was a thread about this here. Someone had great
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>plans, and I think he even made the Linux console support Unicode.
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Well, I started such a thread in the kernel mailing list a few months
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ago and I wrote a patch that allows the console to understand UTF-8.
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But this patch only supported the IBM character set subset of Unicode
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and no new glyphs were defined. I can mail this old patch to anyone
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interested, but it has only been tested against late pre-1.0
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kernels. I still have plans for a font cache support in the console
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that will automatically load those 256 (perhaps even 512) characters
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that are currently needed in the VGA font memory. But unfortunately,
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I don't even have Linux hardware at home currently, so this project has to
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wait until this is fixed first ... ;-) Ask me in 2 months again.
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There are also rumours that someone in Australia is working on a
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Unicode capeable xterm version, but I don't know any details.
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Who knows more?
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BTW: various information about Unicode, UTF-8, etc. is available on
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ftp.uni-erlangen.de:pub/doc/ISO/charsets/.
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Markus
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---
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Markus Kuhn, Computer Science student -- University of Erlangen,
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Internet Mail: <mskuhn@cip.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> - Germany
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WWW Home: <http://wwwcip.informatik.uni-erlangen.de/user/mskuhn>
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------------------------------
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From: gpg109@huxley.anu.edu.au (Gary Paul Gortmaker)
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Subject: ext2fs floppy/82077 corruption with 1.1.49
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Date: 1 Sep 1994 14:56:16 +1000
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This may shed some more light on the floppy corruption reported
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earlier. This only seems to happen with the more advanced floppy controller
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(reported as a "post-1991 82077") and _not_ the standard 8272A based
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controllers. (The 82077 can be found on the more expensive SCSI cards
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such as the aha-154X, buslogic cards, AMI-FastDisk, etc.)
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This is guaranteed to demonstrate the problem on 82077 based systems.
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I have verified it on two systems with 82077 chips on cards from
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different manufacturers. I know it did so on 47 and 48, as well as 1.1.49,
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but can't vouch for how far it goes back. I sent this to the KERNEL
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channel, but I think the mail-server ate it. :-(
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1) mke2fs a floppy
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2) mount it and copy a big (~500k) file to it (or several files)
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3) unmount it but _don't_ eject it
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4) run "e2fsck -vrf /dev/fd0" --- it will come up clean (reading the cache)
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5) eject it and immediately stick it back in (set disk change flag)
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6) Repeat step 4 -- you will get most of the blocks in the above file(s)
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being marked as "not in use".
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Also, a notebook that now claims to have an 8272A (but printed the message
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"floppy: FIFO enabled" with the 1.1.3X kernels) also exhibits this
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corruption. The same notebook could not even use the floppy for
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kernels 1.1.42 --> 45 (the ones that used the faster 720k step rate)
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I could not get the same sequence to produce the corruption with a
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standard 8272A based FDC.
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Perhaps we should have a way in which the 82077 can be used as a
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bog standard 8272A (like it was in kernels < 1.1.23) until all the
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enhanced FIFO features of the 82077 are sorted out.
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bool 'Floppy FIFO support for 82077' CONFIG_FDC_FIFO n
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Paul.
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------------------------------
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From: s0017210@cc.ysu.edu (Steve DuChene)
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Subject: Re: Kernel change summary 1.1.45 -> 1.1.46
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Date: 1 Sep 1994 10:08:33 GMT
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Russell Nelson (nelson@crynwr.crynwr.com) wrote:
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: More spelling fixes (I before E except after C or when pronounced like
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: an A as in neighbor or weigh, unless it's spelled weird).
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I find all these spelling errors and their subsequent correction
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extremely humorous. I am a terrible speller also and it's nice
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to see even Linus(?) or other developers have the same problems.
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Then to go to the trouble of patching them while still trying to do
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kernel development is amazing!
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--
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| Steven A. DuChene sduchene@cis.ysu.edu or s0017210@cc.ysu.edu
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| Youngstown State University | Computer Science / Math / Mech. Eng.
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|They all laughed at Albert Einstein. They all laughed at Columbus.
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|Unfortunately, they also all laughed at Bozo the Clown.
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------------------------------
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From: keith@ksmith.com (Keith Smith)
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Subject: scancode terminal support (was:Re: Linux console to SCO comp. prob)
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Date: Fri, 02 Sep 94 03:15:22 GMT
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It would be nicer if the scancode support for the keyboard was
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integrated so that it could be used by the dosemu program, and/or
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scancode terminals on serial lines. Oh, like SCO has <GRIN>.
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--
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Keith Smith aka Digital Designs keith@ksmith.com
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5719 Archer Rd. Free Usenet News and Internet Mail Services
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Hope Mills, NC 28348-2201 All 28K/14K Modems (910) 423-4216/7389/7391
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Somewhere in the Styx of North Carolina ... 14K-V.32/28K-V.34/28K-V.34
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------------------------------
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From: keith@ksmith.com (Keith Smith)
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Subject: Re: Linux console to SCO comp. prob
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Date: Fri, 02 Sep 94 03:23:01 GMT
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In article <DMW.94Aug29102738@prism1.prism1.com>,
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David Wright <dmw@prism1.prism1.com> wrote:
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> The SCO keyboard layout & functionality is so standard that many
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>dumb terminals even have a setup to emulate it. It is NOT something that
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>should be lightly tossed aside.
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In fact, on all my wy150 terminals I redefined all the programmable keys
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to match the SCO console. If Mohammed can't come to the mountain ...
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New terminals from Wyse and ADDS support SCO console native. They also
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support SCANCODE mode and/or "pc-term" mode. The ability to pass
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scancodes raw into an application is awesome. SCO Unix's ability to
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translate serial line scancodes into ASCII/ANSI sequences is a definate
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Big time help when trying to do some of the stuff we do, (IBM S/36
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emulation).
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If you want Linux to emulation SCO _for REAL_ you set the bar pretty
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high indeed. SCO has eliminated MANY of the "little small problem"'s
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and issues in it's rather pricey OS. The Rumor mill says the upcomming
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SCO release is going to raise the bar even quite a bit higher. We'll
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see what happens.
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--
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Keith Smith aka Digital Designs keith@ksmith.com
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5719 Archer Rd. Free Usenet News and Internet Mail Services
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Hope Mills, NC 28348-2201 All 28K/14K Modems (910) 423-4216/7389/7391
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Somewhere in the Styx of North Carolina ... 14K-V.32/28K-V.34/28K-V.34
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------------------------------
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From: keith@ksmith.com (Keith Smith)
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Subject: Re: Linux console to SCO comp. prob
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Date: Fri, 02 Sep 94 03:38:54 GMT
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In article <CvCIAE.H7B@hscsol.attmail.com>,
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Stephen Harris <hsw1@hscsol.attmail.com> wrote:
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>David Wright (dmw@prism1.prism1.com) wrote:
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>: and C-S-FKEY. I want (and NEED) Linux to do this as well. Also, the keys that
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>: Linux sends out are far too long for what they need to do and still be
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>
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>What is too long about the Linux fkeys? Errm, F8 sends ESC[19~
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>Seems entirely reasonable and standard with the VT keyboards (LK201).
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Oh vomit. The Fkey sequences under linux really suck. They would be
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GREAT if they followed a contiguous pattern, but they don't do that. I
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don't care what DEC did. A suggestion would be something like:
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\E[{fkey number}#
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so f1 = \E[1#
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f2 = \E[2#
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...
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f999 = \E999#
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Which brings us to ...
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>: unique. This causes problems with our in-house software because we use a
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>: tree-based keyboard table to speed up recognition and we have a fixed
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>: maximum size per fkey string we can handle. Yes, we could increase it, but why?
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>
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>Then your program is WRONG! Making *any* assumption about the length of
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>keyboard strings, terminal escape sequence etc etc is WRONG WRONG WRONG!
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Sure, throw away the dusty deck.
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>
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>: The SCO keyboard layout & functionality is so standard that many
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>: dumb terminals even have a setup to emulate it. It is NOT something that
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>
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>And the defulat Linux keyboard is so standard because it emulates a dumb
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>terminal.
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Well, sortof anyway. I should say mostly.
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'Splain where F22 is on a VT100 will ya?
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>Please look at an DEC LK201(?) keyboard sometime and the sequences that the
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>VT220 VT320 VT420 etc all send out - ie probably the most common keyboard
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>sequences in existence!
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Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
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Behind the wierd PC keyboard ....
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The Wyse/Adds/ADM/Televideo/Hazeltine/etc ad nauseum terminals are WAY,
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WAY, WAY more comman than _any_ DEC terminal. I'd be willing to bet
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Wyse has sold more WY-50's than DEC has sold VT terminals combined.
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The WY-50 uses a CTRL-A leadin with characters from the ASCII chart
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starting with '@' == 1 and work their way up the ASCII chart IN ORDER,
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following the character with a CR.
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The WY-50 was sort of the standard from which all other's after were
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defined. And I might add the WY-50 is one BLIND FAST terminal for
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screen response, largely because of the laconic control sequence set,
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albeit a tad cryptic.
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I have _NEVER_ seen a consistant DEC VT Function key keymap, but you can
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rest assure that if you power on a wyse 50/60/120/150/55/30 and press
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F1, your gonna get ESC-@-CR.
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So if you wanna emulate the "Most common" sequences you'd best pick the
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Wyse keyboard sequences.
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--
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Keith Smith aka Digital Designs keith@ksmith.com
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5719 Archer Rd. Free Usenet News and Internet Mail Services
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Hope Mills, NC 28348-2201 All 28K/14K Modems (910) 423-4216/7389/7391
|
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Somewhere in the Styx of North Carolina ... 14K-V.32/28K-V.34/28K-V.34
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------------------------------
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