553 lines
23 KiB
Plaintext
553 lines
23 KiB
Plaintext
From: Digestifier <Linux-Development-Request@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu>
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To: Linux-Development@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu
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Reply-To: Linux-Development@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu
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Date: Sun, 4 Sep 94 02:13:05 EDT
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Subject: Linux-Development Digest #116
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Linux-Development Digest #116, Volume #2 Sun, 4 Sep 94 02:13:05 EDT
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Contents:
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Unicode & Linux's future (was Re: Acid) (Richard L. Goerwitz)
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Re: DOSEMU 0.53: Developers and testers ne (Matthias Urlichs)
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SCSI chip AM53C94JC supported? (Harri Pasanen)
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Re: XFree & CDROM slow down transfer rate (Robert Stockmann)
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Re: more than 2 COM ports at the same time (Sander van Malssen)
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HP-NSVT drivers??? (Stephen Vance)
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1.1.49 SCSI errors (JL Gomez)
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Not all memory seen on Compaq Deskpro M (EISA) (Jean-Francois Panisset)
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Re: Acid (was: Simple acid test) (Mike Kenney)
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Re: Any interest for DCF77 clock code? (Rob Janssen)
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Re: DOS BC++/Linux floats (Michel Anders)
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Re: Linux - my first impressions (Rob Janssen)
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Re: IDE Performance enhancement (Rob Janssen)
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Re: PGP Signature (Was: Suggest:SCSI Tape File System) (Jeffrey Oxenreider)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From: goer@quads.uchicago.edu (Richard L. Goerwitz)
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Subject: Unicode & Linux's future (was Re: Acid)
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Reply-To: goer@midway.uchicago.edu
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Date: Sat, 3 Sep 1994 20:44:20 GMT
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In article <348tgi$n2e@ionews.io.org> gabe@io.org (Lau) writes:
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>
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> You are completely missing out on what makes a internationalize OS so
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>hard to make. There are already hundreds of standard formats for different
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>languages,...
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But none of these standards is truly multilingual, except for Unicode/
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ISO 10646. So the obvious answer is to standardize on these, and to for-
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get about all of the conflicting local standards. There is no way that an
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OS can support a myriad of incompatible schemes, and no way it should. So
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you are right that I'm missing the point. But you've missed the point that
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my missing the point is the point :-).
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>>Incidentally, what is this Mule? Is this a truly internationalized
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>>product, or a hack to get the OS to work with some specific non-western
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>>language like Japanese?
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>
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> While MULE was principly developed in Japan, it can handle various
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>coding schemes for different languages assuming they can coexist.
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>
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> Again, "truly internationalized" is something that will take a while in
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>any OS. Can you think of ANY OS or app that will allow you to write from
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>left to right(English & most European languages), right to left(Hebrew) AND
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>top to bottom from the left to right (Chinese), all in the same document?
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FIRST OF ALL (I don't mean to shout), let's get straight one thing: Mule
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is not fully internationalized. It supports a few Asian scripts, and that
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is it. This is great, but let's not tout this as any sort of system-wide
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solution. It sounds, in fact, as though it might be the exact wrong ap-
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proach, although I have only read the docs within the last few days, and
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cannot make any blanket statements.
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SECONDLY, let's consider what it means to "support" multiple languages. On
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the lowest level, it means simply that the operating system and its core
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drivers permit the use of character representations that may be wider than
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8 bits. After this there are several more issues to consider. The first
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is input methods: Do the keyboard drivers work with the operating system
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in such a way that one can, on the fly, change one's keymap? Does it sup-
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port contextual code changes (e.g. Arabic letters will differ depending on
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their position relative to other letters)? Finally, do the display drivers
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and GUIs support multiple wordwrap directions? And are their conventions
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for storing messages, text, etc. as separate "resources" so that one can
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switch from one set to another for localization purposes?
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The idea of switching code pages (DOS/OS2-ish) or doing setlocale calls,
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as one finds with ANSI C is antithetical to certain aspects of the Uni-
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code/ISO 10646 design philosophy, in the sense that this philosophy en-
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compasses all national scripts, rather than forces us to toggle between
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incompatible standards. Some toggling will always be needed, of course.
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But the toggling, I'd think, would be between pages in the Unicode and
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ISO 10646 space.
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Now to your final question: Is any OS fully internationalized? Well, it
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depends on what level you're talking. NT uses Unicode internally. UTS-8
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is a standard for encoding multi-byte characters in a traditional 8-bit
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system, so potentially any Unix system could, to some extent, follow suit.
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As for the GUI, the Mac has WorldScript. If you follow certain coding
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standards, WorldScript allows one to write along merrily in English, then
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switch to Greek, or even Arabic or Hebrew, and continue writing merrily
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along (with the directionality and wordwrap and keyboard changing on the
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fly). I've been doing the same thing, happily, under DOS using Multi-
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Lingual Scholar (Gamma Productions). Also I hear news that the next ver-
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of Motif will have the multidirectional wordwrap code enabled.
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So things are improving. What can we do here under Linux? I really can't
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say. I just don't think that the old idea of multiple conflicting schemes
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represents a workable form of internationalization. Nor does hacking this
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or that software to do this or that language.
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Am I babbling nonsense, or am I making sense?
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--
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-Richard L. Goerwitz goer%midway@uchicago.bitnet
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goer@midway.uchicago.edu rutgers!oddjob!ellis!goer
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------------------------------
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From: urlichs@smurf.noris.de (Matthias Urlichs)
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Subject: Re: DOSEMU 0.53: Developers and testers ne
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Date: 2 Sep 1994 09:32:29 +0200
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In comp.os.linux.development, article <Pine.LNX.3.90.940901110123.217B-100000@leonard.anu.edu.au>,
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rxr401 <rxr401@leonard.anu.edu.au> writes:
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>
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>
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> It has nothing to do with Dosemu. Fdd drivers in many of the v1.1.4x
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> kernels (including 1.1.49) won't let you mount a write-protected disk. It
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> doesn't seem to be a bug, rather a deliberate choice in the fdd driver.
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That's not a bug, that's a feature. Mounting or opening a write-protected
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medium in read-write mode doesn't make sense. Therefore the kernel won't
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allow it (not any more, anyway).
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Open / mount the thing read-only and it'll work.
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--
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Q: How can a real man tell when his girl friend's having an orgasm.
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A: Real men don't care.
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--
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Matthias Urlichs \ XLink-POP N<>rnberg | EMail: urlichs@smurf.noris.de
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Schleiermacherstra<EFBFBD>e 12 \ Unix+Linux+Mac | Phone: ...please use email.
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90491 N<>rnberg (Germany) \ Consulting+Networking+Programming+etc'ing 42
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PGP: 1B 89 E2 1C 43 EA 80 44 15 D2 29 CF C6 C7 E0 DE
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Click <A HREF="http://smurf.noris.de/~urlichs/finger">here</A>.
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------------------------------
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From: pa@tekla.fi (Harri Pasanen)
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Subject: SCSI chip AM53C94JC supported?
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Date: 02 Sep 1994 11:38:07 GMT
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Hello,
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Could someone 'in the know' tell me if AM53C94JC scsi chip is
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supported? I'm looking into installing Linux on an ICL Ergo D4/66dXGi
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machine, which has the above mentioned scsi chip on mainboard, along
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with ATI Mach 32 and Fujitsu 86965 ethernet chip.
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Is NCR53c7,8xx is a close enough relative to AM53C94JC?
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Thanks,
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Harri
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--
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======================================================
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Harri Pasanen pa@tekla.fi
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------------------------------
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From: stock@dutsh7.tudelft.nl (Robert Stockmann)
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Subject: Re: XFree & CDROM slow down transfer rate
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Date: Sun, 4 Sep 1994 02:24:00 GMT
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In <CvK5Dq.6Lo@cix.compulink.co.uk>, Simon P Allen (simonallen@cix.compulink.co.uk) wrote:
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: What you are likely seeing is the buffer cache in action. I could beleive
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: that you *seem* to get something like 5.6Mb/s but your only reading from
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: system RAM at that speed. When X is loaded some of the buffers get
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: tossed out and Linux has to go to the real hardware for data. This
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: almost *has* to be the explaination because like the gentleman said, 'The
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: CD-ROM you got aint gonna do that speed'.
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So if X tosses out my so-called buffer for the scsi-controller, which
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is as you said, located in my system RAM, Then I might get some more RAM
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to prevent this buffer from being tossed out. I now have 12 Mbyte,
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If I toss in some 8 Mbyte more (total of 20 Mbyte: above the 16Mbyte limit of
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Linux.), could the transferrate of my scsi-disk become more stable?
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BTW I test the transferrate by doing:
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# time dd if=/dev/sda1 of=/dev/null bs=32k count=128
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Robert Stockmann
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------------------------------
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From: svm@kozmix.xs4all.nl (Sander van Malssen)
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Subject: Re: more than 2 COM ports at the same time
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Reply-To: svm@kozmix.xs4all.nl
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Date: Sun, 4 Sep 1994 04:40:53 +0200 (MET DST)
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doolittle@cebaf.gov writes:
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> Harry C Pulley (hpulley@uoguelph.ca) wrote:
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> : I already have 2 parallel ports on 5 and 7 and
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> : a sound card on IRQ7. Unfortunately, I don't think my multi-I/O card can
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> : change the IRQ for COM4 to IRQ2. Thus, changing IRQs is not an option.
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>
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> I trust you know that the lp driver does not use IRQ's,
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Not so. The lp driver polls by default, but can be made to use IRQs
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with tunelp(8). But usually there are plenty free channels left in
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the IRQ 8-12 region.
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> and the
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> existence of setserial package to tell Linux about non-standard
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> IRQ's for serial ports. The only step left is for you to realize
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> that changing IRQ's in hardware *is* an option. I did it on a
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> multifunction board, this is actually easiest. Run a wire from a
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> COM IRQ jumper post to an LP IRQ jumper post. The posts are wire
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> wrap posts, so any thin wire with a few turns will be grabbed and
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> make reliable electrical contact. It took me about twenty minutes
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> staring at the board traces with good lighting to figure out which
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> two posts required the jumper. If you are not a hardware type, and
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> don't want to learn, find a friend who is. It really is pretty easy.
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Alternatively, if you have to use an IRQ between 8-12, there
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probably won't be a suitable jumper. In that case, a bit of wire, a
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soldering iron, knowledge of the ISA bus pin layout and perhaps a
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sharp knife will do the trick. (I used this method to have /dev/cua0
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use IRQ5 instead of 4 because I hadn't thought of wire-wrapping the
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jumpers ;-)
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Cheers,
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Sander
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--
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Sander van Malssen
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svm@kozmix.xs4all.nl
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------------------------------
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From: srvance@unix.secs.oakland.edu (Stephen Vance)
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Subject: HP-NSVT drivers???
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Date: 2 Sep 1994 11:30:52 GMT
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I am trying to get Linux accepted as our R&D platform of choice at work.
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The rest of the departments will end up using DOS/Windows (yecch!), but
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it makes sense for their needs. However, ...
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We have a box running HP-MPE/iX without HP's ($$$$) telnet services.
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The only other way I am aware of to connect to it is by using NSVT. Does
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anyone know of drivers or sufficient info to write one? Needless to say,
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HP was less than helpful, particularly since they are discontinuing the
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protocol.
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Steve
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------------------------------
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From: kitana!sysop@caprica.com (JL Gomez)
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Subject: 1.1.49 SCSI errors
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Date: 3 Sep 1994 18:31:27 -0500
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Reply-To: kitana!sysop@caprica.com
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What exactly are these SCSI errors from 'dmesg'?
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scsi0 : reseting for second half of retries.
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SCSI disk error : host 0 id 1 lun 0 return code = 18000002
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Current error sd813: sns = f0 3
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Raw sense data:0xf0 0x00 0x03 0x00 0x04 0xa3 0x24 0x0a 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00
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scsidisk I/O error: dev 0813, sector 164644
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scsi0 : reseting for second half of retries.
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SCSI disk error : host 0 id 1 lun 0 return code = 18000002
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Current error sd813: sns = f0 3
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Raw sense data:0xf0 0x00 0x03 0x00 0x04 0xa3 0x24 0x0a 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00
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scsidisk I/O error: dev 0813, sector 164644
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scsi0 : reseting for second half of retries.
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Can reformatting the HD help matters?
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Thanks for the explanations!
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--
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sysop@kitana.org
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------------------------------
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From: panisset@CIM.McGill.CA (Jean-Francois Panisset)
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Subject: Not all memory seen on Compaq Deskpro M (EISA)
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Date: 2 Sep 1994 09:13:38 -0400
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I have a Compaq Deskpro 486/33M, which is an EISA bus machine with the
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processor on a card. The machine has 20M of RAM, which is happily seen
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by the power-on test, the EISA diagnostics/setup disk and
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DOS. Unfortunately, neither the 1.0.8 nor the 1.1.49 kernels see more
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than 8Mb of this memory. Does anyone have any ideas why this might be?
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I compiled the kernels with the "limit memory to low 16Mb" option set
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to no. For reference, the machine also contains a WD80x3 Ethernet
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board and an ATI GUP video board. Could the fact that the GUP is
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mapping its frame buffer into the address space be a problem? (but
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then, it should also be on another machine, a Dell EISA with 32Mb and
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a GUP: the kernel happily sees all the memory on that machine).
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JF
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--
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Jean-Francois Panisset
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School: panisset@cim.mcgill.ca Work: panisset@cae.ca
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------------------------------
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From: mike@wavelet.apl.washington.edu (Mike Kenney)
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Subject: Re: Acid (was: Simple acid test)
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Date: 2 Sep 1994 23:59:58 GMT
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In article <1994Sep2.023807.24567@midway.uchicago.edu>,
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Richard L. Goerwitz <goer@midway.uchicago.edu> wrote:
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>Being an American, I realize that it's hard for us to understand a
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>multilingual environment like India, Canada, much of Russia, etc.; or
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>a culture like Iran or Turkey, where Arabic has a certain standing as
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>a religious language, though the populace speaks a non-Semitic vernacu-
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>lar. What I don't understand is why foreign markets are putting up
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>with the whole mess by permitting single-language localizations. If
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>everyone just said, "Give me a fully internationalized OS that sup-
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>ports wide characters and has a script manager built into the GUI,"
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>then, well, a lot of goons would be out of work. But we'd be that
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>much closer to Nirvana.
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^^^^^^^ I think they broke up :-)
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Hmmm. If they are "putting up with it", maybe it's not that big
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an issue.
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--
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Mike Kenney
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mikek@apl.washington.edu
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------------------------------
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From: rob@pe1chl.ampr.org (Rob Janssen)
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Subject: Re: Any interest for DCF77 clock code?
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Reply-To: pe1chl@rabo.nl
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Date: Fri, 2 Sep 1994 07:25:28 GMT
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In <34554oE82f@uni-erlangen.de> bon@lte.e-technik.uni-erlangen.de (Uwe Bonnes) writes:
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>In article <342g7s$q33@urmel.informatik.rwth-aachen.de> dak@rama.informatik.rwth-aachen.de (David Kastrup) writes:
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>>Trying to get a head count...
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>>How many people would be interested in a small program which gets the current
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>>time from the radio clock DCF77 (receivable about 900km around Frankfurt,
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>Before you write one, look with "archie -s dcf"! There are several!
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I did that a few times before, but I never found what I really needed...
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There is one program that processes raw clock data, but it draws a
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full-screen clock and needs manual interaction to set the system clock
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from that. It also just warps the time. Not really what I want.
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Other programs use "processed" data from expensive clocks that send the
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time as some ascii string. I don't have such clock.
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Then there is XNTP, but it is much too complicated for me (network
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oriented, I just want to sync a single machine). And the DCF77 module
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in there also doesn't act on raw data, I think.
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Do you know about a program that runs as a daemon, uses adjtime, and
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processes raw data? (e.g. on a COM port set to 50 bps)
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Rob
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--
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=========================================================================
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| Rob Janssen | AMPRnet: rob@pe1chl.ampr.org |
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| e-mail: pe1chl@rabo.nl | AX.25 BBS: PE1CHL@PI8UTR.#UTR.NLD.EU |
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=========================================================================
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------------------------------
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From: michela@sci.kun.nl (Michel Anders)
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Subject: Re: DOS BC++/Linux floats
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Date: Fri, 2 Sep 1994 11:36:18 GMT
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In <34633v$2lr@harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au> kevinl@bruce.cs.monash.edu.au (Kevin Lentin) writes:
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>Riku Saikkonen (riku.saikkonen@compart.fi) wrote:
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>> So, is there a way to read the Borland C++ floating point numbers in
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>> Linux? Now I have a converter to convert the data file to ASCII and
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>> back, but that's not an optimal soluion...
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>Have you tried using double in DOS? You could be having the same int/long
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>problem you were having with integers. Linux is 32bit and I suspect (!)
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>that it's floats are too. DOS floats are 16bit
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
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no they are not!
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'DOS-floats' don't exist, but
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floats in BC are 4 , doubles are 8 or 10 bytes long. The exact format can
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be found in the manuals, but unfortunately i have no idea what the exact
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format is of Gcc/linux floats so i can't help out there.
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I myself abandoned the the idea of using any binary representation of
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floats in portable code and reverted to using a plain ascii representation
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throughout. Ok, it's a bit bulkier (but those files compress easily) but
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using printf/scanf or whatever works everywhere and written out data has
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the advantage of being readable by me ( a mere human ) and nice programs
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like 'gawk' etc.
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Michel.
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------------------------------
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From: rob@pe1chl.ampr.org (Rob Janssen)
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Subject: Re: Linux - my first impressions
|
||
Reply-To: pe1chl@rabo.nl
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Date: Sat, 3 Sep 1994 22:04:31 GMT
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In <CvK7qx.83I@cs.vu.nl> kjb@cs.vu.nl (Kees J. Bot) writes:
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>rob@pe1chl.ampr.org (Rob Janssen) writes:
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>>In <CvI5oG.1n0@cs.vu.nl> kjb@cs.vu.nl (Kees J. Bot) writes:
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>>>Under SunOS the installboot(8) program installs the bootstrap and the
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>>>addresses to /boot into the boot block. This only needs to be done
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>>>once, because /boot never changes.
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>>>The LILO method is rather crude.
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>>I don't think so...
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>>- LILO does not require the boot image to be on contiguous sectors
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>No requirement of any other loader I know.
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Have a look at SYS V systems... They use a separate filesystem for
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the bootimages where files always use contiguous blocks.
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>>- LILO can boot many different kernels and also other operating systems
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>Many different kernels *if* all of them have been mapped. They must be
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>carefully mapped whenever a new kernel is installed. That's what I mean
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>with crude.
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No, this is done only once when configuring LILO. From then on, all
|
||
kernels will be mapped simply by running the installer.
|
||
|
||
>Booting other operating systems is trivial. It is not something that
|
||
>makes LILO stand out.
|
||
|
||
Can your SUN booter do it?
|
||
|
||
>>I think it is a good program, and running its installer after building
|
||
>>the kernel is not a problem at all. It is even done in the same
|
||
>>"make zlilo" command.
|
||
|
||
>Inflexible.
|
||
>I like to hack code on one system, copy the resulting kernel image to
|
||
>another system with a simple 'rcp' command, and test the new kernel on
|
||
>this other system. Both systems are running Minix-386vm, with a
|
||
>bootstrap system written by myself that understands Minix filesystems.
|
||
|
||
That will really shine on an ext2 partition!
|
||
|
||
No, I still think the LILO method is a good idea.
|
||
|
||
Rob
|
||
--
|
||
=========================================================================
|
||
| Rob Janssen | AMPRnet: rob@pe1chl.ampr.org |
|
||
| e-mail: pe1chl@rabo.nl | AX.25 BBS: PE1CHL@PI8UTR.#UTR.NLD.EU |
|
||
=========================================================================
|
||
|
||
------------------------------
|
||
|
||
From: rob@pe1chl.ampr.org (Rob Janssen)
|
||
Subject: Re: IDE Performance enhancement
|
||
Reply-To: pe1chl@rabo.nl
|
||
Date: Sat, 3 Sep 1994 22:14:41 GMT
|
||
|
||
In <34a1ld$d14@chaos.dac.neu.edu> wdoyle@hilbert.coe.northeastern.edu (Patrick Doyle) writes:
|
||
|
||
>Note, I tend to recompile the kernel while running in an X window, so
|
||
>there is certainly some amount of swapping being performed (onto /dev/hdb).
|
||
>One thing I have noticed is that the load average when compiling is
|
||
>around 1.5 to 3.0. Does this imply that my compiles are CPU-bound, so
|
||
>regardless of what I do to improve the I/O, it's not going to make
|
||
>much of a difference?
|
||
|
||
On my 486/33 with SCSI disk on a 1542B, compilations are completely
|
||
CPU bound. However, I normally get a load average of 1 on kernel
|
||
compilations.
|
||
|
||
Note that the load average in Linux is "wrong" when compared to traditional
|
||
UNIX systems. Normally it counts the processes that are ready to run,
|
||
but Linux also includes the processes that are "swapping" or are in
|
||
an "uninterruptible sleep". This was introduced at some time to make
|
||
the "load average" reflect the "feel of system load", but I don't think
|
||
it is a good thing.
|
||
|
||
About IDE multiple-sector: the rate of a "dd" off the disk doubles when
|
||
setting 8-sector transfer on the Quantum disk in my machine at work.
|
||
I did not time the difference in compilation speed, but again it will
|
||
probably not make so much difference.
|
||
|
||
Rob
|
||
--
|
||
=========================================================================
|
||
| Rob Janssen | AMPRnet: rob@pe1chl.ampr.org |
|
||
| e-mail: pe1chl@rabo.nl | AX.25 BBS: PE1CHL@PI8UTR.#UTR.NLD.EU |
|
||
=========================================================================
|
||
|
||
------------------------------
|
||
|
||
From: zureal@infinet.com (Jeffrey Oxenreider)
|
||
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.misc
|
||
Subject: Re: PGP Signature (Was: Suggest:SCSI Tape File System)
|
||
Date: 2 Sep 1994 11:55:30 GMT
|
||
|
||
Darin Johnson (djohnson@arnold.ucsd.edu) wrote:
|
||
: That also begs the question of whether or not your message was
|
||
: important enough to even care if you really wrote it or not.
|
||
|
||
That's a matter of personal opinion. Take for example the recient fiasco
|
||
with Steve Winters and the post about 'War on Satans BBS's', which was a
|
||
long tirade about how pagan bbs's need to be terrorized and shut down.
|
||
It was signed Steve Winters (and Steve is a well known 'hardcore'
|
||
christian) and it was quite the rant and very believeable that Steve
|
||
could have written it. It was also a PGP signed message. This ADDED to
|
||
the believability of it. However it was later discovered that Steve
|
||
never had a PGP key, and never wrote the message. If (before this
|
||
incident) Steve had made a public key, some people could have checked the
|
||
validity of this *highly* volitile message. Mr. Winters now is (or is in
|
||
the process of) making a public PGP key so this kind of thing can't
|
||
happen again with his name.
|
||
--
|
||
*----===========================================================------*
|
||
* zureal@infinet.com | 74431.3011@compuserve.com *
|
||
* sysop@f560.n226.z1.fidonet.org | jeffoxen@freenet.columbus.oh.us *
|
||
* BBS # (614) 235-5942 *
|
||
* Fnord All hail Eris! Fnord *
|
||
* finger zureal@infinet.com or FREQ PGPKEY from 1:226/560 for PGP key *
|
||
*---=============================================================-----*
|
||
|
||
------------------------------
|
||
|
||
|
||
** FOR YOUR REFERENCE **
|
||
|
||
The service address, to which questions about the list itself and requests
|
||
to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, is:
|
||
|
||
Internet: Linux-Development-Request@NEWS-DIGESTS.MIT.EDU
|
||
|
||
You can send mail to the entire list (and comp.os.linux.development) via:
|
||
|
||
Internet: Linux-Development@NEWS-DIGESTS.MIT.EDU
|
||
|
||
Linux may be obtained via one of these FTP sites:
|
||
nic.funet.fi pub/OS/Linux
|
||
tsx-11.mit.edu pub/linux
|
||
sunsite.unc.edu pub/Linux
|
||
|
||
End of Linux-Development Digest
|
||
******************************
|