630 lines
25 KiB
Plaintext
630 lines
25 KiB
Plaintext
From: Digestifier <Linux-Development-Request@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu>
|
|
To: Linux-Development@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu
|
|
Reply-To: Linux-Development@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu
|
|
Date: Wed, 7 Sep 94 13:13:19 EDT
|
|
Subject: Linux-Development Digest #135
|
|
|
|
Linux-Development Digest #135, Volume #2 Wed, 7 Sep 94 13:13:19 EDT
|
|
|
|
Contents:
|
|
SNMP Under Linux (MATTHEW TIPPETT)
|
|
Re: Multiprocessing Pentium Systems (Ulrich Teichert)
|
|
Re: Why was ncp removed in 1.1.48? (Alan Cox)
|
|
Re: linux never swaps ? (Alan Cox)
|
|
Re: Linux - my first impressions (Alan Cox)
|
|
Re: Multiprocessing Pentium Systems (Robert Manners)
|
|
Re: cat /proc/interrupts doesn't show printer ints. (Bruce Evans)
|
|
Re: XFconfig86 problems - HELP! (Walter Hunt)
|
|
Re: Kernel change summary 1.1.45 -> 1.1.46 (Bruce Evans)
|
|
Re: Future of linux -- the sequel (Mike Kenney)
|
|
Re: DOSEMU 0.53 notes (Harry C Pulley)
|
|
Re: DOSEMU 0.53 notes (Harry C Pulley)
|
|
DOSEMU 0.53pl18 und 1.1.49 : Serial Problems (Martin Cornelius)
|
|
Re: cat /proc/interrupts doesn't show printer ints. (David Hinds)
|
|
PCI+Pentium+Linux+X? (David J Topper)
|
|
Re: Acid (was: Simple acid test) (David Wright)
|
|
Re: Linux console to SCO comp. prob (David Wright)
|
|
Re: Unicode & Linux's future (was Re: Acid) (Richard L. Goerwitz)
|
|
|
|
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
|
|
|
From: 9208033h@levels.unisa.edu.au (MATTHEW TIPPETT)
|
|
Subject: SNMP Under Linux
|
|
Date: 6 Sep 94 21:49:53 +0930
|
|
|
|
Hi...
|
|
|
|
|
|
Can anyone point me to any information on using SNMP under Linux,
|
|
I have looked over sunsite & tsx-11 and have had no luck whatsoever...
|
|
|
|
Replies via email please, the volume here is a bit high..
|
|
|
|
Matt
|
|
|
|
------------------------------
|
|
|
|
From: ut@informatik.uni-kiel.d400.de (Ulrich Teichert)
|
|
Subject: Re: Multiprocessing Pentium Systems
|
|
Date: 7 Sep 1994 13:38:20 +0200
|
|
|
|
In <34k4dt$e74@morgoth.derwent.co.uk> tim@morgoth.derwent.co.uk. (Tim Morley) writes:
|
|
|
|
>In article <1994Sep6.211029.11082@news.cs.indiana.edu>,
|
|
>David Williams <dwwillia@mango.ucs.indiana.edu> wrote:
|
|
>>
|
|
>>I've just seen some new dual processor pentium systems in Computer
|
|
>>Shopper. They look swell for the money, but there isn't a single OS
|
|
>>that can take advantage of them. Anybody have any thoughts about how
|
|
>>hard it might be to make Linux one of the first OS's to take advantage
|
|
>>of these systems?
|
|
|
|
>Well it would be hard to do so, as OS/2 SMP already exists and is
|
|
>avaliable for dual processor machines...
|
|
As is NT. There was a test in a german mag (c't), if you wrote about
|
|
the ASUS MB.
|
|
|
|
Uli
|
|
--
|
|
Ulrich Teichert Voice : +49 4321 71582
|
|
Stormweg 24 E-mail: ut@informatik.uni-kiel.d400.de
|
|
24539 Neumuenster, Germany // listening to:
|
|
X-Ray Spex: Oh! Bondage Up Yours! // Buzzcocks: Inside
|
|
|
|
------------------------------
|
|
|
|
From: iialan@iifeak.swan.ac.uk (Alan Cox)
|
|
Subject: Re: Why was ncp removed in 1.1.48?
|
|
Date: Wed, 7 Sep 1994 10:45:15 GMT
|
|
|
|
In article <1994Sep1.055848.12288@unlv.edu> ftlofaro@unlv.edu (Frank Lofaro) writes:
|
|
>Why was NCP removed in 1.1.48?
|
|
>Too alpha to end up in 1.2.0, or did Novell threaten to sue? :(
|
|
|
|
It was something Mark Evans added that really didnt belong in the kernel
|
|
(NCP uses three sockets in a way you can handle cleanly in user mode).
|
|
|
|
Alan
|
|
|
|
|
|
--
|
|
..-----------,,----------------------------,,----------------------------,,
|
|
// Alan Cox // iialan@www.linux.org.uk // GW4PTS@GB7SWN.#45.GBR.EU //
|
|
``----------'`----------------------------'`----------------------------''
|
|
|
|
------------------------------
|
|
|
|
From: iialan@iifeak.swan.ac.uk (Alan Cox)
|
|
Subject: Re: linux never swaps ?
|
|
Date: Wed, 7 Sep 1994 10:46:20 GMT
|
|
|
|
In article <8990314.09B00002C2.uuout@pcb.mpoli.fi> jani.kurki-suonio@pcb.mpoli.fi (JANI KURKI-SUONIO) writes:
|
|
>Try Xchess from Yggdrasil summer'94 CD-ROM distribution. It has some
|
|
>bug, and it fills out your computer's memory- no matter how much you
|
|
>have.
|
|
|
|
Its not a bug it just uses huge hash tables in its standard configuration
|
|
trading memory for speed. If you get the source you can tune it to sane
|
|
values.
|
|
|
|
Alan
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
--
|
|
..-----------,,----------------------------,,----------------------------,,
|
|
// Alan Cox // iialan@www.linux.org.uk // GW4PTS@GB7SWN.#45.GBR.EU //
|
|
``----------'`----------------------------'`----------------------------''
|
|
|
|
------------------------------
|
|
|
|
From: iialan@iifeak.swan.ac.uk (Alan Cox)
|
|
Subject: Re: Linux - my first impressions
|
|
Date: Wed, 7 Sep 1994 10:50:28 GMT
|
|
|
|
In article <CvIwyw.JMC@boulder.parcplace.com> imp@boulder.parcplace.com (Warner Losh) writes:
|
|
>The EEPROMS on Solbourne machines can read the boot blocks and the
|
|
>file system. The EEPROMs on Sun machines, at least older ones, need
|
|
>to be told where the bootblocks are. The Sun's bootblocks understand
|
|
>the file system.
|
|
|
|
Suns boot block works just like lilo and uses a set of hardcoded block
|
|
numbers to load a program off the root disk (/boot) that then runs and
|
|
knows about BSD(well the sun variant) ffs. Lilo can load such a loader if
|
|
you feel like writing one.
|
|
|
|
As far as I a concerned at least lilo is superb, it does the job and its
|
|
small. I don't care whether my boot loader understands BSD FFS or
|
|
presidential speeches. It doesn't need to know either to do the job. If I
|
|
wanted a featured boot loader I could use the OS/2 one that thinks its an
|
|
entire window system but uses 1Mb of disk.
|
|
|
|
Alan
|
|
--
|
|
..-----------,,----------------------------,,----------------------------,,
|
|
// Alan Cox // iialan@www.linux.org.uk // GW4PTS@GB7SWN.#45.GBR.EU //
|
|
``----------'`----------------------------'`----------------------------''
|
|
|
|
------------------------------
|
|
|
|
From: rm@dsbc.icl.co.uk (Robert Manners)
|
|
Subject: Re: Multiprocessing Pentium Systems
|
|
Date: Wed, 7 Sep 1994 08:30:41 GMT
|
|
|
|
In article <1994Sep6.211029.11082@news.cs.indiana.edu> "David Williams" <dwwillia@mango.ucs.indiana.edu> writes:
|
|
>
|
|
>I've just seen some new dual processor pentium systems in Computer
|
|
>Shopper. They look swell for the money, but there isn't a single OS
|
|
>that can take advantage of them. Anybody have any thoughts about how
|
|
>hard it might be to make Linux one of the first OS's to take advantage
|
|
>of these systems?
|
|
>
|
|
I hate to disillusion you, but System V has an optional symettric
|
|
multiprocessing package, as does Unixware. NT also comes with multiple
|
|
processors. We're actullay running all three here (we're a deveopment site
|
|
for hardware, you see). Mind you, all of these systems cost $$$$$, but then
|
|
so does our MP system!
|
|
|
|
Linux could be the first *FREE* (in both the price and FSF senses of the word)
|
|
system to do symettric MP!!! You have the sources, go for it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
--
|
|
=============================================================================
|
|
R.J.Manners Diagnostics & BIOS Development Engineer (!)
|
|
ICL Intel(tm) SuperServers
|
|
=============================================================================
|
|
|
|
------------------------------
|
|
|
|
From: bde@kralizec.zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans)
|
|
Subject: Re: cat /proc/interrupts doesn't show printer ints.
|
|
Date: 7 Sep 1994 22:00:27 +1000
|
|
|
|
In article <34hmjv$39c@grapevine.lcs.mit.edu>,
|
|
Chris Metcalf <metcalf@CATFISH.LCS.MIT.EDU> wrote:
|
|
>In article <199409060657.AA00409@unicorn.univ-orleans.fr>,
|
|
> <andrei@labomath.univ-orleans.fr> wrote:
|
|
>> The Subject says it all. I am *almost* sure my printer uses INT7, as I set it
|
|
>>by tunelp, and it works, and if I set it to another value, it doesn't.
|
|
>
|
|
>The printer interrupt is only grabbed when the device is open. Try
|
|
|
|
There needs to be a counter per (driver, interrupt) pair. Dynamically
|
|
loaded drivers are especially interesting. I'd like to preserve
|
|
accumulated statistics across kernel reboots. Write them to a log file
|
|
or something. Unloading drivers or unattaching their interrupts could
|
|
be handled in the same way.
|
|
--
|
|
Bruce Evans bde@kralizec.zeta.org.au
|
|
|
|
------------------------------
|
|
|
|
From: walter@mailhost.aimla.com (Walter Hunt)
|
|
Crossposted-To: comp.windows.x.i386unix,comp.os.linux.help
|
|
Subject: Re: XFconfig86 problems - HELP!
|
|
Date: 7 Sep 1994 00:57:11 GMT
|
|
|
|
In article <CvGI27.C3o@dorsai.org>, Carlos Dominguez <carlos@dorsai.dorsai.org> writes:
|
|
|>
|
|
|> Hi..
|
|
|>
|
|
|> Day three, and I still cannot get X up and running on my linux box.
|
|
|> I'm using the slackware 2.0 distribution from the morse cd-rom.
|
|
|>
|
|
|> As per the HOW-TO's I tried to run the XFconfig86 shell scripts.
|
|
|>
|
|
|> I still am getting errors like "cannot cat /tmp/??????"
|
|
|> whenever I try to run Xfconfig86 included in my slackware 2.0 cdrom
|
|
|> distribution.
|
|
|>
|
|
|
|
If this is the same XFConfig86 that I tried to run, I bet you are
|
|
telling it to emulate a 3-button mouse. The one I had would place
|
|
"Emulate3Buttons" before the mouse defs, causing a domino effect that would lead
|
|
to an empty tmp file (like the complaint you saw) that was supposed to hold the
|
|
modes available for the card.
|
|
|
|
If you edit the Template file in the XFConfig directory
|
|
(/usr/X11/lib/X11/XFConfig?) and move the Emulate3Buttons line down one, you
|
|
should be a much happier camper.
|
|
|
|
|
|
--
|
|
Walter Hunt walter@aimla.com
|
|
Philips Interactive Media of America Los Angeles, Ca.
|
|
|
|
------------------------------
|
|
|
|
From: bde@kralizec.zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans)
|
|
Subject: Re: Kernel change summary 1.1.45 -> 1.1.46
|
|
Date: 7 Sep 1994 22:33:12 +1000
|
|
|
|
In article <34htn2$6ep@magus.cs.utah.edu>,
|
|
Brad Midgley <bmidgley@lal.cs.utah.edu> wrote:
|
|
>In article <VISIGOTH.94Sep6041620@olivier.dementia.org>,
|
|
>John McClary Prevost <visigoth@olivier.dementia.org> wrote:
|
|
>
|
|
>[multi-user mode changing of append-only/imutable bits]
|
|
>
|
|
>>[stops cracker from modifying old syslog entries]
|
|
>
|
|
>For this purpose, the raw device must also be immutable. But what
|
|
>about mknod? How would mknod know which created-devices should be
|
|
>immutable? a root break-in could do anything he wanted to the file
|
|
>system with access a writable raw device (albeit difficult).
|
|
|
|
In BSD 4.4lite, in secure mode, disks for mounted file systems are
|
|
read-only. In highly secure mode, disks are read-only whether mounted
|
|
or not. The man page notes that this inhibits running newfs. It
|
|
would also inhibit writing to floppies (if floppies are disks :-).
|
|
--
|
|
Bruce Evans bde@kralizec.zeta.org.au
|
|
|
|
------------------------------
|
|
|
|
From: mike@wavelet.apl.washington.edu (Mike Kenney)
|
|
Subject: Re: Future of linux -- the sequel
|
|
Date: 7 Sep 1994 04:25:53 GMT
|
|
|
|
In article <34i4rd$1mu4@yuma.acns.colostate.edu>,
|
|
Larry Pyeatt <pyeatt@cervesa.cs.colostate.edu> wrote:
|
|
>I never said SGI was the only way to go. I just said that Intel makes
|
|
>the worst processors available and it would be nice to have an alternative.
|
|
>I used MIPS R4600 as an example and all you people seem to think that the
|
|
>R4600 is somehow the same thing as an SGI Indy. Honestly, I would rather
|
|
>have an Alpha or PA-RISC processor than the MIPS processor. The point I
|
|
>am making is that a PC with a decent (read non-Intel) processor, running
|
|
>Linux would be a very powerful and affordable system.
|
|
>
|
|
>
|
|
|
|
Well, I'm not sure you've made your point ... you're talking about
|
|
virtually nonexistent systems. Until RISC *systems* become commodity
|
|
priced they aren't going to make a dent in the low-end market. IMHO
|
|
Intel is going to control the low-end for quite a while.
|
|
|
|
While I agree that the PC architecture has quite a few flaws (I wouldn't
|
|
touch it if I couldn't run Linux on it :-) the price can't be beat.
|
|
|
|
--
|
|
Mike Kenney
|
|
mikek@apl.washington.edu
|
|
|
|
------------------------------
|
|
|
|
From: hpulley@uoguelph.ca (Harry C Pulley)
|
|
Subject: Re: DOSEMU 0.53 notes
|
|
Date: 7 Sep 1994 12:59:11 GMT
|
|
|
|
ddelsig@uoft02.utoledo.edu wrote:
|
|
: >The only other problem I have noticed is that mem does not show any EMS memory
|
|
: >even though I ask for it. Am I the only one for which EMS doesn't show up?
|
|
: >
|
|
: >Harry
|
|
|
|
: In config.sys, load the driver `ems.sys' that came in dosemu.
|
|
|
|
Yes, someone also emailed me about this. It works great! I know, should have
|
|
RTFMed...
|
|
|
|
Thanks,
|
|
Harry
|
|
--
|
|
<:-{} hpulley@uoguelph.ca |This message released|It takes all kinds,
|
|
\ Harry C. Pulley, IV |to the PUBLIC DOMAIN.|and to each his own.
|
|
==================================+=====================|This thought in mind,
|
|
Stay away from the DOS side, Luke!|Un*x don't play that.|I walk alone.
|
|
|
|
------------------------------
|
|
|
|
From: hpulley@uoguelph.ca (Harry C Pulley)
|
|
Subject: Re: DOSEMU 0.53 notes
|
|
Date: 7 Sep 1994 12:59:36 GMT
|
|
|
|
fnrjh@dev103.elmer.alaska.edu wrote:
|
|
: Rob Janssen (rob@pe1chl.ampr.org) wrote:
|
|
: : In <34djse$cds@sunb.ocs.mq.edu.au> mkrisch@avalanche.mpce.mq.edu.au (Mark Krischer) writes:
|
|
|
|
: : what patchlevel?
|
|
: I am using 1.1.42 dosemu0.53pre17
|
|
|
|
|
|
: : I don't think so. Only ET4000, S3, trident for now.
|
|
: I to wish they supported ATI. I have one (weird card) and DOSEMu stops
|
|
: when I try to use the graphics mode. Do I need to make a copy of the
|
|
: BIOS for the video card? Any strange thing to get graphics mode. Character
|
|
: mode works great. The old DOSEMu 52 worked with the ATI. Cursor looked
|
|
: funny but it worked.
|
|
|
|
I have a Cirrus Logic 5428 and it works great in graphics mode under 0.53.
|
|
|
|
Harry
|
|
--
|
|
<:-{} hpulley@uoguelph.ca |This message released|It takes all kinds,
|
|
\ Harry C. Pulley, IV |to the PUBLIC DOMAIN.|and to each his own.
|
|
==================================+=====================|This thought in mind,
|
|
Stay away from the DOS side, Luke!|Un*x don't play that.|I walk alone.
|
|
|
|
------------------------------
|
|
|
|
From: root@fabsoft2.zarm.uni-bremen.de (Martin Cornelius)
|
|
Subject: DOSEMU 0.53pl18 und 1.1.49 : Serial Problems
|
|
Date: 7 Sep 1994 13:28:17 GMT
|
|
|
|
I just successfully installed Kernel 1.1.49 and Dosemu 0.53pl18,
|
|
but the serial Ports seem to be not working at all. When I try
|
|
to install the MS mouse-driver or the Logimouse driver, they
|
|
both say that no mouse can be found. Also, Procomm cannot access
|
|
the ports. I'm sure the harware is o.k. as i can use the ports
|
|
with kermit, selection and X. The serial entries in my dosemu.conf
|
|
didn't change since dosemu 0.52, where everything worked fine.
|
|
|
|
Any Hints ??
|
|
|
|
|
|
====================================================
|
|
Martin Cornelius, ZARM-FAB, Uni Bremen 0421-218-4807
|
|
Hochschulring / Am Fallturm 28359 BREMEN
|
|
====================================================
|
|
|
|
------------------------------
|
|
|
|
From: dhinds@allegro.stanford.edu (David Hinds)
|
|
Subject: Re: cat /proc/interrupts doesn't show printer ints.
|
|
Date: 7 Sep 1994 04:26:10 GMT
|
|
|
|
Glenn Moloney (glenn@tauon.ph.unimelb.edu.au) wrote:
|
|
|
|
: Some drivers only request interrupts when they are opened, and release
|
|
: them when closed. An example is the floppy driver, which uses interrupt
|
|
: 6, but only requests the interrupt (request_irq()), while a floppy is
|
|
: open. Hence IRQ 6 does not appear in /proc/interrupts (except whil
|
|
: accessing the floppy). I have not
|
|
: checked if this is the case with the lp driver.
|
|
|
|
: This is a good thing, in that it allows different
|
|
: devices to use the same interrupts (if used at different times).
|
|
: However, it reduces the usefulness of the /proc/interrupts file.
|
|
|
|
: There may be some usefulness in device drivers registering with the
|
|
: kernel what resources (irq,dma,port addresses,shared memory) the
|
|
: software and hardware use. This useful system config information could
|
|
: then be made available in the /proc filesystem. I have several cards and
|
|
: device drivers installed on my system, and it would be nice to find a
|
|
: /proc entry to find free irqs, dma channels and port adresses for
|
|
: instaling new cards on the system. It would make managing many Linux
|
|
: boxes in a laboratory type situation a lot easier (particularly if you
|
|
: have device drivers which auto detect the hardware, but don't
|
|
: permanently grab the IRQ).
|
|
|
|
I agree that this would be a good thing. Sharing interrupts is a good
|
|
thing, but if you've got interrupts to spare, it is better to avoid
|
|
it, since it prevents simultaneous use of the sharing devices.
|
|
|
|
One option would be to have a mechanism for "reserving" resources like
|
|
ports and interrupts. Other drivers could still allocate a reserved
|
|
resource, but a driver for a device with programmable interrupts could
|
|
try to find a line that isn't reserved.
|
|
|
|
-- David Hinds
|
|
dhinds@allegro.stanford.edu
|
|
|
|
|
|
------------------------------
|
|
|
|
From: djt1@ciao.cc.columbia.edu (David J Topper)
|
|
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.admin,comp.os.linux.help,comp.os.linux.misc
|
|
Subject: PCI+Pentium+Linux+X?
|
|
Date: 7 Sep 1994 14:12:03 GMT
|
|
|
|
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.admin,comp.os.linux.help,comp.os.linux.development,comp.os.linux.misc
|
|
Subject: Pentium PCI + Linux X Motiff
|
|
Summary:
|
|
Followup-To:
|
|
Distribution: usa
|
|
Organization: Columbia University
|
|
Keywords:
|
|
Cc:
|
|
|
|
Hello,
|
|
|
|
I could really use some help on the following:
|
|
|
|
1) Does Linux support the Pentium?
|
|
2) Does Linux support 32 | 64 bit Video (PCI)?
|
|
3) Would an SCSI HD make life better?
|
|
4) How does one get Linux + a GUI (X Windows / Motiff) + a C++ compiler
|
|
and other utils?
|
|
5) Are there any major brand hardware peices I need to watch out for?
|
|
6) Or, is there a list (are there lists) of Linux / Xfree86 / C++
|
|
compatibility and availability w/respect to Pentium / PCI Video.
|
|
I'd LOVE to know.
|
|
|
|
I really need to buy a machine and get Unix (Linux) running ASAP. I do
|
|
some DOS programming so I'd like to go with the Pentium and whatnot, but
|
|
perhaps not... From what I've gathered, I need to watch what I buy if I
|
|
go with Linux.
|
|
|
|
Help would be very greatly appreciated. My other option is to just buy
|
|
the SCO Unix (spelled $$$). I'd like to avoid that.
|
|
|
|
Thanks,
|
|
|
|
DT
|
|
|
|
------------------------------
|
|
|
|
From: dmw@prism1.prism1.com (David Wright)
|
|
Subject: Re: Acid (was: Simple acid test)
|
|
Date: Tue, 6 Sep 1994 14:25:25 GMT
|
|
|
|
>>>>> "MK" == Mike Kenney <mike@wavelet.apl.washington.edu> writes:
|
|
|
|
MK> In article <1994Sep2.023807.24567@midway.uchicago.edu>,
|
|
MK> Richard L. Goerwitz <goer@midway.uchicago.edu> wrote:
|
|
>> then, well, a lot of goons would be out of work. But we'd be that
|
|
>> much closer to Nirvana.
|
|
MK> ^^^^^^^ I think they broke up :-)
|
|
|
|
Yeah, too much "acid testing". :-)
|
|
|
|
Dave
|
|
--
|
|
____________________________________________________________________________
|
|
| /\ / | Prism Computer Applications | David Wright |
|
|
| -/--\-- | 14650 Detroit Ave, Suite LL40 | dmw@Prism1.COM |
|
|
| /____\ | Lakewood, OH 44107 USA | 216-228-1400 |
|
|
|
|
------------------------------
|
|
|
|
From: dmw@prism1.prism1.com (David Wright)
|
|
Subject: Re: Linux console to SCO comp. prob
|
|
Date: Tue, 6 Sep 1994 14:37:10 GMT
|
|
|
|
=====BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE=====
|
|
|
|
>>>>> "RJ" == Rob Janssen <rob@pe1chl.ampr.org> writes:
|
|
|
|
RJ> The problem of the original poster was that his keyboard recognition software
|
|
RJ> is broken and he wants to blame someone else for it.
|
|
RJ> I have written a tree-based keyboard table as well, years ago, and I
|
|
RJ> never have seen problems like that. It also works with Linux. Probably
|
|
RJ> his code is not using a tree datastructure where it should.
|
|
|
|
It isn't "broken" per se, we just don't want to have to recompile the
|
|
library it uses just because of Linux. We have had it running in various
|
|
forms under various OS's for many years, and I have *never* come across a
|
|
system that has such long key sequences as Linux does. I knew what Linux and
|
|
our software was doing as soon as I saw it, and I was just commenting that it
|
|
was a shame that whoever designed the default US layout for Linux didn't try
|
|
and emulate something that ran on the majority of Unix systems out there.
|
|
Our stuff runs fine on VT220's, VT320's, etc. and other ancient DEC
|
|
equipment, so I really can't imagine why such long function key sequences were
|
|
thought to be needed.
|
|
|
|
Dave
|
|
|
|
=====BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE=====
|
|
Version: 2.6
|
|
|
|
iQCVAwUBLmx+j2++A+T9du0zAQE0ygQAhmsdKv02HioOV/S8438SHux/duFR74C6
|
|
lR8mtSVT8eBKjOTvl+a4G3YdhkI24/RXfQdS77WL2xltlq5dHMTEYP18PABpDKF/
|
|
RVBvT/LvSBMcJg1j2dDSVwW3WasWxU+nPKvVN7jaC8ORx9Y4RWFH+QR8DvyMIdPY
|
|
r+IyudD/qVo=
|
|
=fWX5
|
|
=====END PGP SIGNATURE=====
|
|
--
|
|
____________________________________________________________________________
|
|
| /\ / | Prism Computer Applications | David Wright |
|
|
| -/--\-- | 14650 Detroit Ave, Suite LL40 | dmw@Prism1.COM |
|
|
| /____\ | Lakewood, OH 44107 USA | 216-228-1400 |
|
|
|
|
------------------------------
|
|
|
|
From: goer@quads.uchicago.edu (Richard L. Goerwitz)
|
|
Subject: Re: Unicode & Linux's future (was Re: Acid)
|
|
Reply-To: goer@midway.uchicago.edu
|
|
Date: Wed, 7 Sep 1994 14:21:38 GMT
|
|
|
|
In article <Cvr6sG.H8p@cwi.nl> aeb@cwi.nl (Andries Brouwer) writes:
|
|
>djohnson@arnold.ucsd.edu (Darin Johnson) writes:
|
|
>
|
|
>>But it's overkill. You don't need special support from the keyboard
|
|
>>drivers to support input methods. All you need is for the input
|
|
>>consumer to map internally. Most input methods work by running as
|
|
>>a separate process rather than being embedded into the OS.
|
|
>
|
|
>I agree entirely. And for Chinese, Japanese etc that is the only way to go.
|
|
|
|
For Hebrew, Greek, Cyrillic, etc. you can get away with a change in the
|
|
default keyboard map. For Amharic I'd think the method you speak of would
|
|
work great. Amharic uses base letter forms that represent consonants, and
|
|
which change form depending on the vowel that follows. There are too many
|
|
forms for a simple keyboard. You could use meta keys. But I wonder if it
|
|
would make more sense for Amharic just to use standard ASCII keys that go
|
|
to a server that composes them on the fly.
|
|
|
|
For Arabic, please help me out: Arabic varies letter shapes according to
|
|
context. A word-initial qof, for example, looks very different from a
|
|
word-final one. The letter shapes don't vary the way they do in Amharic
|
|
script (according to CV sequences), but rather vary according to their
|
|
position in the word and their position in relation to other letters. It
|
|
is essentially a cursive script. How should this be handled?
|
|
|
|
>>> >Finally, do the display drivers
|
|
>>> >and GUIs support multiple wordwrap directions?
|
|
>
|
|
>>Again, this is best solved in the application, not the GUI (and
|
|
>>especially not the display driver).
|
|
>
|
|
>>Of course, this begs the issue of getting 'ls' to display with a
|
|
>>mixture of left-to-right and right-to-left scripts - but running
|
|
>>'ls' (or more likely, an 'nls') inside a multilingual window
|
|
>>solves this. I think it's better to start there and make progress
|
|
>>than to ponder how to fit all that code into the console device...
|
|
|
|
There are lots of issues here all wrapped into one. First of all, how
|
|
will multilingal text be stored? Let us suppose we have an Arabic
|
|
word in the midst of some English text. The English will run left-to-
|
|
right, while the Arabic will run right-to-left (-thgir nur lliw cibarA
|
|
tfel-ot). Does the underlying text get stored in the same direction
|
|
as the English? (English-Arabic) Or does it get stored in its natural
|
|
order (English-cibarA)? The advantage of the second order is that the
|
|
applications don't need to know what is what. They just display the
|
|
string as-is. However, when it comes to wordwrap time they will fal-
|
|
ter. You have to know where text in one language begins and another
|
|
ends in order to get things right.
|
|
|
|
So what do we do? Should all applications be smart enough to know how
|
|
to wrap every script on the face of the planet, and be able to recog-
|
|
nize codes for those languages (i.e. know where the English ends and
|
|
the cibarA begins?). Seems overkill.
|
|
|
|
I like the idea of a multilingual "window" except that this implies X,
|
|
and X is largely out of our control. Even the development of a multi-
|
|
lingual "window" would be silly, since we'd essentially have to write
|
|
a new set of widgets that probably wouldn't be anywhere near as good
|
|
as Motif, etc. :-).
|
|
|
|
Anyone thought this all through? My feeling is that right now the best
|
|
course is to encourage programmers to avoid code that relies on things
|
|
like the exact underlying code for 'a' and that assumes characters will
|
|
be 8-bits.
|
|
|
|
>I did it once, and found that only a few changes were required
|
|
>(like: x++ becomes x += dx), and it was not very difficult to make ls
|
|
>go top-to-bottom or right-to-left. (The most difficult part was getting
|
|
>the screen to scroll horizontally.) But not many people seem to be
|
|
>interested in such features.
|
|
|
|
Not many people are accustomed to computers being properly localized
|
|
for anything other than Latin-based or left-right scripts!
|
|
|
|
--
|
|
|
|
-Richard L. Goerwitz goer%midway@uchicago.bitnet
|
|
goer@midway.uchicago.edu rutgers!oddjob!ellis!goer
|
|
|
|
------------------------------
|
|
|
|
|
|
** FOR YOUR REFERENCE **
|
|
|
|
The service address, to which questions about the list itself and requests
|
|
to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, is:
|
|
|
|
Internet: Linux-Development-Request@NEWS-DIGESTS.MIT.EDU
|
|
|
|
You can send mail to the entire list (and comp.os.linux.development) via:
|
|
|
|
Internet: Linux-Development@NEWS-DIGESTS.MIT.EDU
|
|
|
|
Linux may be obtained via one of these FTP sites:
|
|
nic.funet.fi pub/OS/Linux
|
|
tsx-11.mit.edu pub/linux
|
|
sunsite.unc.edu pub/Linux
|
|
|
|
End of Linux-Development Digest
|
|
******************************
|