744 lines
29 KiB
Plaintext
744 lines
29 KiB
Plaintext
From: Digestifier <Linux-Development-Request@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu>
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To: Linux-Development@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu
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Reply-To: Linux-Development@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu
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Date: Sat, 10 Sep 94 00:13:08 EDT
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Subject: Linux-Development Digest #147
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Linux-Development Digest #147, Volume #2 Sat, 10 Sep 94 00:13:08 EDT
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Contents:
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Re: Alpha Linux (Rob Janssen)
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Re: Homemade Terminal Server cheap (Michael Faurot)
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Re: How to use diff (Kai Petzke)
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mprotect() support in Linux kernel? (Dan Connolly)
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Re: Survey: who wants f77,cc,c++,hpf for linux? (Dan Pop)
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Re: DOOM (Re: 320x200 X resolution?) (Sam Oscar Lantinga)
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Re: UMSDOS and New Linux Kernel (Jacques Gelinas)
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Re: Survey: who wants f77,cc,c++,hpf for linux? (Henry Ware)
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Re: Survey: who wants f77,cc,c++,hpf for linux? (Chris Flatters)
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Re: Multiprocessing Pentium Systems (Steve Wilson)
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Re: Survey: who wants f77,cc,c++,hpf for linux? (Thomas Koenig)
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Re: ATI Mach64... Does it work...? (Pete Deuel)
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Re: ATI Mach64... Does it work...? (Kevin Martin)
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Re: Resolver Expert ? (Mark Swanson)
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Re: ATI Mach64... Does it work...? (Thomas Pfarr)
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Re: Don't use Linux?! (Phil Howard)
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Re: Don't use Linux?! (Jagadeesh Krishnamurthy Venugopal)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From: rob@pe1chl.ampr.org (Rob Janssen)
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Subject: Re: Alpha Linux
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Reply-To: pe1chl@rabo.nl
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Date: Fri, 9 Sep 1994 21:40:40 GMT
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In <CvuwH2.1yB@info.swan.ac.uk> iialan@iifeak.swan.ac.uk (Alan Cox) writes:
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>Indeed not. Do we get 128 bit long longs in gcc however ?. The other thing
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Convenient when doing IPng :-)
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Rob
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--
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=========================================================================
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| Rob Janssen | AMPRnet: rob@pe1chl.ampr.org |
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| e-mail: pe1chl@rabo.nl | AX.25 BBS: PE1CHL@PI8UTR.#UTR.NLD.EU |
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=========================================================================
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------------------------------
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Crossposted-To: comp.dcom.servers
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From: mfaurot@phzzzt.atww.org (Michael Faurot)
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Subject: Re: Homemade Terminal Server cheap
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Date: Fri, 9 Sep 1994 10:46:59 GMT
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William (billw@glare.cisco.com) wrote:
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: 1) MSRP for the 16 port card is over $700 apiece - I don't know where
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: the original poster got $400 for 16 ports. (MSRP of 8 port cards
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: was over $400.) Cyclade also sells a full "terminal server", 16 ports
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: for (barely) under $2000...
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I just bought an 8-port card directly from Cyclades and it was only $228.
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--
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+--------------------+----------------------------+--------------------------+
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| Michael Faurot | mfaurot@phzzzt.atww.org | I don't like |
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| ------- ------ | ...!netcomsv!phzzzt!mfaurot| lima beans!! |
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+--------------------+--------------------+-------+--------------------------+
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------------------------------
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From: wpp@marie.physik.tu-berlin.de (Kai Petzke)
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Subject: Re: How to use diff
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Date: 9 Sep 94 12:16:41 GMT
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treed@ucssun1.sdsu.edu (Tracy R. Reed) writes:
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>I saved the old kernel in /usr/src/linux-old and the new
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>kernel is in /usr/src/linux.
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diff -urN /usr/src/linux-old /usr/src/linux >diff_file
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or:
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cd /usr/src
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diff -urN linux-old linux >diff_file
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Kai
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--
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Kai Petzke | How fast can computers get?
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Technical University of Berlin |
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Berlin, Germany | Sol 9, of course, on Star Trek.
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wpp@marie.physik.tu-berlin.de |
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------------------------------
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From: connolly@ulua.hal.com (Dan Connolly)
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Crossposted-To: comp.lang.modula3
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Subject: mprotect() support in Linux kernel?
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Date: 09 Sep 1994 22:47:56 GMT
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I'm interested in enhancing the Linux port of Modula 3 to use
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incremental/generational garbage collection. This requires support for
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the mprotect() library routine, or its equivalent.
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However, it appears that mprotect() is not supported under Linux:
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In linux/mm/mmap.c, I see:
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230 asmlinkage int sys_mprotect(unsigned long addr, size_t len, unsigned long prot)
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231 {
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232 return -EINVAL; /* Not implemented yet */
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233 }
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mprotect() is in /usr/include/sys/mman.h, but there's no linux man page
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(that I can find) for mprotect.
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In the Kernel Hackers guide at
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http://sunsite.unc.edu/mdw/LDP/khg/section2.7.1.html
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I see:
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Minor alterations are needed in some places (tests for process
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memory limits comes to mind) to provide support for programmer
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defined segments.
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So I guess for now, I'm out of luck. I'm willing to hack the modula-3
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runtime, but it would take me a while to ramp up on the Linux kernel
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memory management.
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Have I found the most recent info? Is there a more recent version of
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the kernel that supports mprotect()? Is anyone working on support for
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this? Is there a different library function that would serve my needs?
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Thanks.
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Dan
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In article <34q7ub$6k4@src-news.pa.dec.com> kalsow@src.dec.com (Bill Kalsow) writes:
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From: kalsow@src.dec.com (Bill Kalsow)
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Newsgroups: comp.lang.modula3
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Date: 9 Sep 1994 18:01:47 GMT
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Organization: DEC Systems Research Center
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In article <CONNOLLY.94Sep8153413@ulua.hal.com>, connolly@ulua.hal.com (Dan Connolly) writes:
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> * the garbage collection isn't synchronized with the virtual
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> memory system. Same two questions:
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> -- is this likely to impact performance noticeably?
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Yes. The star-trek cursor appears during the stop-and-copy collections.
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With the VM synchronization you get incremental and generational
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collections. The pauses would be invisible.
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> -- Would someone with experience guestimate the amount
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> of work to make the appropriate enhancements?
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It's not much work:
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- It must be possible to protect and unprotect data pages,
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and the signal handler for memory access violations must be able
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to determine the offending address and resume from the
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signal. See runtime/src/{DS3100,SPARC}/RTHeapDep.[im]3.
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- The system calls need wrappers that validate their arguments
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before making the call. See runtime/src/{DS3100,SPARC}/RTHeapDepC.c.
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The source code he refers to is available at:
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http://www.research.digital.com/SRC/m3sources/html/runtime/src/SPARC/RTHeapDep.m3
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--
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Daniel W. Connolly "We believe in the interconnectedness of all things"
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Software Engineer, Hal Software Systems, OLIAS project (512) 834-9962 x5010
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<connolly@hal.com> http://www.hal.com/%7Econnolly/index.html
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------------------------------
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Crossposted-To: comp.lang.fortran
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From: danpop@cernapo.cern.ch (Dan Pop)
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Subject: Re: Survey: who wants f77,cc,c++,hpf for linux?
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Date: Fri, 9 Sep 1994 18:07:04 GMT
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In <34pufe$sf1@sulawesi.lerc.nasa.gov> mshann@hyperthink.lerc.nasa.gov (Ray Hann) writes:
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>benchmarks by 3 fold. But then again I have found on some of my own
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>scientific codes that f2c+gcc produces code that actually executes faster
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>than that of the Sun F77 compiler.
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Looks like you're comparing apples with oranges here, unless you were
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using the Sun F77 compiler on the same PC, of course (Solaris is available
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for PC hardware).
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Dan
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--
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Dan Pop
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CERN, CN Division
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Email: danpop@cernapo.cern.ch
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Mail: CERN - PPE, Bat. 31 R-004, CH-1211 Geneve 23, Switzerland
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------------------------------
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Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.misc
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From: slouken@cs.ucdavis.edu (Sam Oscar Lantinga)
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Subject: Re: DOOM (Re: 320x200 X resolution?)
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Date: Fri, 9 Sep 1994 22:27:52 GMT
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: LINUX: An X version with 16-bit sound is running. It'll likely
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: perform like a dog on mortal systems, but it's very smooth on my
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: DX/2 66. At sunsite.unc.edu:/pub/Linux/Incoming/linxdoom.tgz.
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: May be moved. Remember: it was just for fun and is not supported.
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: Do not send e-mail to tech support, please.
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: Poor sunsite....
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To help take the load off of sunsite, I have it temporarily
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on my machine dewdrop.water.ca.gov in /pub/doom/lnxdoom.tgz
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Note that pixel doubling/tripling doesn't work, and sound only
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works with a 16 bit soundcard. (Anyone want to sell one cheap? *grin*)
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Enjoy!
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-Sam
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------------------------------
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From: jack@solucorp.qc.ca (Jacques Gelinas)
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Subject: Re: UMSDOS and New Linux Kernel
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Date: Fri, 9 Sep 94 03:22:37 GMT
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ianq@hookup.net (Ian V. Quickmire) writes:
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>Yes, I am one of those using UMSDOS with Linux 1.0.0 mainly for test purposes.
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>However, I have it running, have my config done, and have X up and running,
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>and don't really want to have to start over again using another FS.
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>My question is:
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>To upgrade my kernel from 1.0.0 to the latest stable version, is UMSDOS now an
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>integral part of Linux code, or will I be unable to keep up with patches while
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>using UMSDOS?
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>If I want to upgarde, do I need UMSDOS patches as well, and are they keeping
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>up with Linux development?
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Umsdos is now an official part of linux since 1.1.35. There is no patch.
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The only trick is to select both msdos and umsdos when you build your
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kernel.
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--
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========================================================
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Jacques Gelinas (jacques@solucorp.qc.ca)
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Maintainer of US4BINR jacques@us4binr.login.qc.ca
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------------------------------
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From: hware@bronze.coil.com (Henry Ware)
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Subject: Re: Survey: who wants f77,cc,c++,hpf for linux?
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Date: 9 Sep 1994 19:04:13 -0400
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In article <34qjup$4sb@sulawesi.lerc.nasa.gov>,
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Ray Hann <mshann@hyperthink.lerc.nasa.gov> wrote:
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>So it looks like the only compiler gap in the free software world is
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>FORTRAN. I heard gf77 was about to enter beta and the only thing
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>it was really missing was 'EQUIVALENCE'.
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Err, you are discounting the gazillion lines of installed COBOL in the
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US, some of it quite new. I am unaware of even a COBOL to C translator...
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Cheers,
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Henry
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------------------------------
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From: cflatter@nrao.edu (Chris Flatters)
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Subject: Re: Survey: who wants f77,cc,c++,hpf for linux?
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Date: 8 Sep 1994 17:18:22 GMT
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Reply-To: cflatter@nrao.edu
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In article bju@indy.pgroup.com, lfm@pgroup.com (Larry Meadows) writes:
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>1. Are people interested in a commercial compiler suite for Linux on
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> Intel Architecture platforms? The suite would include true compilers
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> for extended Fortran 77, ANSI C, Draft-ANSI C++ with extensions, and
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> High Performance Fortran. C, f77, and C++ could support shared memory
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> parallelism (thread-based) if system support is available in Linux.
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> HPF would support socket-based communications on networked systems,
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> and could support custom interconnects.
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HPF (implying Fortran 90) and C++ are interesting prospects; although the
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latter is only interesting if it includes exception handling and has
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reasonable template management (if not, it is only of interest as long as
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GNU C++ remains buggy). ANSI C is pretty well covered by the GNU compiler
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unless you require your own compiler as a back-end for a cfront-based C++)
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and FORTRAN 77 is subsumed by Fortran 90.
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>2. How much would people pay for such a product [ loaded question ]?
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Probably $500 to with $300 as a target depending somewhat on whether
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you have all 4 languages, as seems to be implied. I would expect a
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pricing structure with the environment and all languages at about $500,
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environment plus one language at $200-$300 and additional languages at
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$100-$200 each (price depending on language) would be reasonable.
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>3. What distribution media would be required?
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In decreasing order of usefulness to the Linux community
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floppy
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ftp (if feasible)
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CD Rom
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tape formats
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>4. Is there interest in accompanying GUI/non-GUI debuggers and
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> performance analysis tools?
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If you mean something along the lines of SunSoft's SPARCworks package
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or HP's SoftBench: yes. If you mean only a windowed interface to
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gdb/dbx and/or gprof: no.
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---
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==============================================================================
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Chris Flatters cflatter@nrao.edu
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==============================================================================
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Well, our problem stems from the fact that we, basically, allow every planet
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and moon-base this side of Alpha Centauri to make their own version of Spam.
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"Mystery Meat"
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Man... or Astroman?
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------------------------------
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From: stevew@sheridan.ncd.com (Steve Wilson)
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Subject: Re: Multiprocessing Pentium Systems
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Date: 9 Sep 1994 23:13:30 GMT
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In article <1994Sep6.211029.11082@news.cs.indiana.edu>, "David Williams" <dwwillia@mango.ucs.indiana.edu> writes:
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|>
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|> I've just seen some new dual processor pentium systems in Computer
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|> Shopper. They look swell for the money, but there isn't a single OS
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|> that can take advantage of them. Anybody have any thoughts about how
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|> hard it might be to make Linux one of the first OS's to take advantage
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|> of these systems?
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|>
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|> David Williams Member of League for Programming Freedom
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|> dwwillia@iucf.indiana.edu Linux, PGP, the Web: I love this NET!
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|> http://www.iucf.indiana.edu Indiana University Cyclotron Facility
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Not true, NT will run on an MP platform.
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Steve Wilson
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------------------------------
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From: ig25@fg70.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de (Thomas Koenig)
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Crossposted-To: comp.lang.fortran
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Subject: Re: Survey: who wants f77,cc,c++,hpf for linux?
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Date: 9 Sep 1994 22:59:35 GMT
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Reply-To: Thomas.Koenig@ciw.uni-karlsruhe.de
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Larry Meadows (lfm@pgroup.com) wrote in article <34m769$bju@indy.pgroup.com>:
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>1. Are people interested in a commercial compiler suite for Linux on
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> Intel Architecture platforms? The suite would include true compilers
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> for extended Fortran 77, ANSI C, Draft-ANSI C++ with extensions, and
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> High Performance Fortran.
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C: gcc is just fine for Linux.
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F77: f2c/gcc works for the kind of things I do with it. I don't run
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large linear systems on a Linux box, anyway (those go on a large
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HP, or an even larger Fujitsu vector computer), but for sheer
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floating point applications, which operate on little data, a
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486 doesn't do badly compared to a heavily loaded HP.
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C++: It would be nice, but not essential.
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HPF: If this includes a full F90 implementation, I would earnestly try
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to talk our computer centre people into buying a campus-wide license.
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>2. How much would people pay for such a product [ loaded question ]?
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Depends on how much I could try and get out of the computer centre :-)
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>3. What distribution media would be required?
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ftp, or floppy; there should be some provision for copying the compilers
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and assorted files into strange places (for example, very likely it
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would go on a central NFS server and be mounted from /app).
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>4. Is there interest in accompanying GUI/non-GUI debuggers and
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> performance analysis tools?
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You'd have to beat Emacs/gdb, which is probably hard, especially if
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people are already used to it.
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--
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Thomas Koenig, Thomas.Koenig@ciw.uni-karlsruhe.de, ig25@dkauni2.bitnet.
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The joy of engineering is to find a straight line on a double
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logarithmic diagram.
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------------------------------
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From: deuelpm@craft.camp.clarkson.edu (Pete Deuel)
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Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help,comp.windows.x.i386unix
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Subject: Re: ATI Mach64... Does it work...?
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Date: Fri, 9 Sep 1994 01:39:57 GMT
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In article <CvtHDw.1vr@encore.com> pwalker@pinocchio.encore.com (Pete Walker) writes:
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>From: pwalker@pinocchio.encore.com (Pete Walker)
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>Subject: ATI Mach64... Does it work...?
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>Date: Thu, 8 Sep 1994 15:22:43 GMT
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>Keywords: Mach64
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>Hi Xfreers,
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>Notice that Mach64 is listed under 'others' group in Hardware-HOWTO and
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>just wanted to know if anyone has the Mach64 card working under
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>Xfree and if so what was the proceedure used to get it going.
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>I am purchasing one of these cards (VLB) and wants to know if it is a
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>good decision or safe ivest investment. Thanks for your replys.
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We have a mach 64 PCI and it works great... didn't know there was a VLB
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version...
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Pete
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===================================================
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"Actually, I'm a lab mouse on stilts..."
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E-mail: deuelpm@craft.camp.clarkson.edu
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===================================================
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------------------------------
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From: martin@cs.unc.edu (Kevin Martin)
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Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help,comp.windows.x.i386unix
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Subject: Re: ATI Mach64... Does it work...?
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Date: 8 Sep 1994 17:40:30 GMT
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In article <34nfka$6p7@blackbird.db.erau.edu>, eric@news.db.erau.edu (m.s. saed arafat) writes:
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|> I have the ATI Graphics Xpression (VLB) which has the Mach64 chipset
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|> running with X. The server is unaccelerated, but performance on my
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|> machine still seems decent (486 66 w/ 8 Meg or RAM). It was simple
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|> to set up since my monitor timmings where in the database. You
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|> can get the ALPHA, unaccelerated server at:
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|>
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|> sunsite.unc.edu
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|> /pub/Linux/X11/X-servers/XF_SVGA_Mach64.tar.gz
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|>
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|> Don't know if there is anyone working on an accelerated server,
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|> maybe someone else can answer that question...
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Just to let everyone know, there are people working on the accelerated
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Mach64 server...
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It will not be included in the next XFree86 release (3.1), but
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hopefully it will be included in the release after 3.1.
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Kevin
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___
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Kevin E. Martin University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
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martin@cs.unc.edu Department of Computer Science
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------------------------------
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From: ag010@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Mark Swanson)
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Subject: Re: Resolver Expert ?
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Reply-To: ag010@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Mark Swanson)
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Date: Fri, 9 Sep 1994 12:37:31 GMT
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In a previous article, adsb@bnr.co.uk (Andrew Benham) says:
|
|
|
|
>Is there anyone who's an expert on the resolver in Linux who I
|
|
>can discuss my problem with ?
|
|
>
|
|
>I'm using an external DNS, and when Linux makes a query it insists
|
|
>on adding the default domain to any hostname that doesn't have a
|
|
>trailing dot.
|
|
>So, for example, if I ping "bmdhh130.bnr.co.uk" from g8fsl.ampr.org,
|
|
>Linux puts out a DNS request for "bmdhh130.bnr.co.uk.ampr.org", which
|
|
>doesn't get resolved and I get a "host not known" error.
|
|
>
|
|
>Any help would be appreciated - I've tried looking through the source
|
|
>code but it isn't commented well enough for me to debug by
|
|
>code-reading.
|
|
>
|
|
In all of the tcpdumps I've seen from my Linux box I've never seen it append
|
|
the domain name. 4 lines of a tcpdump displaying your dns queries would be
|
|
sufficient to have a little looksee.
|
|
--
|
|
Mark Swanson. ag010@freenet.carleton.ca
|
|
Linux FREE BBS V.Fast 24,000bps. Ottawa, Canada. (613)-829-1941
|
|
|
|
------------------------------
|
|
|
|
From: tpfarr@cstgmail.gsfc.nasa.gov (Thomas Pfarr)
|
|
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help,comp.windows.x.i386unix
|
|
Subject: Re: ATI Mach64... Does it work...?
|
|
Date: 9 Sep 1994 12:41:46 GMT
|
|
|
|
In article <deuelpm.18.2E6FBCED@craft.camp.clarkson.edu>, deuelpm@craft.camp.clarkson.edu (Pete Deuel) says:
|
|
>
|
|
>In article <CvtHDw.1vr@encore.com> pwalker@pinocchio.encore.com (Pete Walker) writes:
|
|
>>From: pwalker@pinocchio.encore.com (Pete Walker)
|
|
>>Subject: ATI Mach64... Does it work...?
|
|
Does anyone know if you can override the setting of the max clock in the code at
|
|
runtime?
|
|
|
|
If I don't specify clocks in Xconfig then it will allow the 110Mhz clock needed for
|
|
1280x1024 @60HzV. But I have not found a mode setup which will work at this
|
|
dot clock. (works fine with the 1152x8xx 90Mhz setting in the Xconfig supplied by
|
|
the Alpha driver example)
|
|
|
|
Does anyone have 110, 1280x1024 settings for the Nanao f760i monitor?
|
|
|
|
Thanks in advance...
|
|
|
|
Tom Pfarr
|
|
tpfarr@cstgmail.gsfc.nasa.gov
|
|
Computer Sciences Corporation
|
|
|
|
lessly for a truecolor driver... anyway,
|
|
I have a 21" monitor (Nanao f760i) and the current Alpha driver limits the
|
|
dot clock to a maximum of 90MHz if you specify the clocks in Xconfig. If you
|
|
don't the code will set it to the proper 135MHz maximum.
|
|
|
|
Does anyone know if you can override the setting of the max clock in the code at
|
|
runtime?
|
|
|
|
If I don't specify clocks in Xconfig then it will allow the 110Mhz clock needed for
|
|
1280x1024 @60HzV. But I have not found a mode setup which will work at this
|
|
dot clock. (works fine with the 1152x8xx 90Mhz setting in the Xconfig supplied by
|
|
the Alpha driver example)
|
|
|
|
Does anyone have 110, 1280x1024 settings for the Nanao f760i monitor?
|
|
|
|
Thanks in advance...
|
|
|
|
Tom Pfarr
|
|
tpfarr@cstgmail.gsfc.nasa.gov
|
|
Computer Sciences Corporation
|
|
|
|
------------------------------
|
|
|
|
From: phil@zeus.fasttax.com (Phil Howard)
|
|
Subject: Re: Don't use Linux?!
|
|
Date: 9 Sep 1994 22:15:31 -0500
|
|
|
|
hightec@sbusol.rz.uni-sb.de (Michael Schumacher) writes:
|
|
|
|
>4. The spirit of free software is all around. Free in both meanings:
|
|
> free availability of the sources, and free of charge. Which does
|
|
> not go together with commercial interests very well. Just to give
|
|
> you an example of what I'm talking about: I'm the author of tgdb,
|
|
> a graphical user interface for gdb. I like the idea of free software,
|
|
> and so I asked my employer for permission to make it GPL'd freeware.
|
|
> Guess what, he said "No way!". So I ripped off my bones and used all
|
|
> of my talents to persuade him to make it a shareware product instead
|
|
> of a true commercial package. Well, now that tgdb is available for
|
|
> a couple of weeks, I'm quite sure there are 100's or even more people
|
|
> who use it for their daily debug sessions. Fine. But the bloody truth
|
|
> is that not even a *single* person has paid the nominal shareware
|
|
> fee of US$30!
|
|
|
|
But do you really know that anyone is using it? Have you considered that
|
|
those people that would want a commercial tool would have a commercial unix
|
|
system anyway?
|
|
|
|
|
|
>5. On the other hand, I can tell you how to make lots of money with Linux:
|
|
> simply download the archives of tsx-11, sunsite, nic.funet.fi,
|
|
> prep.ai.mit.edu and ftp.x.org, put them on a CDROM, call it "Dream Linux"
|
|
> or similar, and sell if for US$35 per copy. It's that easy. Let's say,
|
|
> an average user is looking for "the better OS" and wants to try out
|
|
> Linux. He buys a "Dream Linux" CD - and is lost. Nothing works "out of
|
|
> the box", no reasonable documentation is available, nor hotline support.
|
|
> What will happen? I'm quite sure that most of these desperated people
|
|
> will close the Linux chapter - forever.
|
|
|
|
I've generally found the support for Linux to be better than the majority
|
|
of commercial packages and systems. Support for commercial software often
|
|
consists of people more trained in dealing with people over the phone than
|
|
in the real technical matters that are the reason you call them in the first
|
|
place. And the bigger the company, the closer to the bottom of the barrel
|
|
they have to scrape which tends to offset all the big company resources they
|
|
usually have to deal with such things.
|
|
|
|
The real technical people don't want to sit an answer phones all day and
|
|
have to deal with people (and these are the people who do buy commercial
|
|
software) that don't install it right and never understand what you tell
|
|
them to do anyway.
|
|
|
|
On the other hand, the real technical people -DO- frequent comp.os.linux.*
|
|
and the various mailing lists. Many of them I find to be very helpful in
|
|
dealing with problems. They speak the technical lingo and they know I do
|
|
as well (or else I probably would not have chosen to use Linux).
|
|
|
|
|
|
>There are a lot more things which speak against Linux as a platform for
|
|
>commercial products. If an operating system is successful or not depends
|
|
>on the availability of qualified (commercial) software for end-users. I
|
|
>would like to see companies porting their WYSIWIG word processors, graphic
|
|
>tools, spreadsheets, compilers, backup software, and whatever to Linux.
|
|
|
|
Some of those things might be useful. Some probably won't. GCC works
|
|
great for a C compiler. I can't imagine the practicality of using COBOL
|
|
on Linux. For fortran, there is "f2c | gcc".
|
|
|
|
Most of these tools are out there as shareware and freeware already.
|
|
|
|
|
|
>Linux is great, but at present mostly for developers and freaks - *not* for
|
|
>average users who need a reliable platform for doing their jobs. Whoever
|
|
>asks for a good word processor for Linux, hears something like "word
|
|
>processing is out - try TeX", or "you can run xyz under DOSEMU" or "try SCO
|
|
>versions of xyz; just recompile the kernel with SYSV support and get the
|
|
>iBSC2 package from foo.bar". This can be - at most - a temporary work-around.
|
|
>Users don't want to know how to roll a new kernel, they don't want to ftp
|
|
>packages, unpack, configure, compile, debug and install them. That's why
|
|
>they are willing to spend some bucks in commercial software, and that's why
|
|
>Macs and Windoze are so successful. And that's why Linux is not.
|
|
|
|
Well, word processing -IS- out, or didn't you know? Try TeX. There are
|
|
limits to what wysiwyg word processing can do, particularly in a continually
|
|
updated document. Just because it forms things correctly right now does not
|
|
mean than it will when some new text is added in. "Post-edit-formatted"
|
|
document preparation is a completely different beastie than wysiwyg word
|
|
processing. It has its advantages and disadvantages.
|
|
|
|
|
|
> Quo vadis, Linux? Do we continue to like Linux "as is", or should we
|
|
>change something in order to encourage companies to develop commercial, but
|
|
>sophisticated end-user software for this beautiful OS? Do we continue to
|
|
>keep Linux a powerful tool for wizards only, or do we want to see Linux
|
|
>being used in offices and other commercial environments? If we *really*
|
|
>want Linux to succeed, we *need* the companies and their commercial products!
|
|
|
|
What would you suggest? Stopping development? The commercial unix systems
|
|
don't stop development, either. What about just making fewer releases?
|
|
That's what 1.0 is for (and then 1.2 and 1.4 after that). If you don't
|
|
want to stay on the bleeding edge of Linux development, there is no one
|
|
forcing you to, and you can always drop back to the last stable version
|
|
any time you want, and you can stay there as long as you want.
|
|
|
|
If 1.0 isn't good enough for a commercial software product, then so be it.
|
|
Maybe 1.2 will be. If all the hacker types are tracking the lastest kernel
|
|
version minutes after it is released, maybe they aren't your customers.
|
|
Then again, if they are, they can certain test your product on that version
|
|
for you and let both the kernel developers and you know about problems.
|
|
|
|
All the people that don't want to think about the system they are running
|
|
will be using MS Windows or a Macintosh. Those systems are designed for
|
|
the mass market and they do that job (with varying levels of opinions).
|
|
Those that do want to think about the system they are running on will make
|
|
their own decisions (and some will be here with us).
|
|
|
|
>Thanks,
|
|
>mike
|
|
|
|
Welcome,
|
|
phil
|
|
|
|
|
|
>PS: See 4. ;-)
|
|
|
|
It's not for me. I've developed the art of debugging without a debugger
|
|
from the early days of assembly language programming.
|
|
--
|
|
/** Phil Howard KA9WGN How about universal JOBS? **\
|
|
* Unix/Internet/Sys Admin Let's de-Foley-ate congress in 94 *
|
|
* CLR/Fast-Tax The right of the PEOPLE to keep and bear arms *
|
|
\** phil@fasttax.com Just say NO to CIX extortion **/
|
|
|
|
------------------------------
|
|
|
|
From: jkvg@kamet.ccs.neu.edu (Jagadeesh Krishnamurthy Venugopal)
|
|
Subject: Re: Don't use Linux?!
|
|
Date: 9 Sep 94 23:18:59
|
|
|
|
|
|
2. Linux's libc tends to change its version number almost every week
|
|
(sometimes even more often). Even though changes of the minor
|
|
version number should not affect previous applications, they will
|
|
sometimes break them. This means for a company that they have to
|
|
debug the library in order to find a work-around (see 3.).
|
|
|
|
[Lotsa stuff deleted]
|
|
Two points
|
|
|
|
1) Linux is of the hackers, by the hackers, for the hackers. There is
|
|
absolutely no need to make it commercially successful. In the search for
|
|
commercial success I am afraid we might lose track of the original ideal-- a
|
|
free os which is the hacker's dream. Well if one wants commercially available
|
|
releases of UNIX there are plenty-- UnixWare, Solaris, etc. Let us have Linux
|
|
just for us. Once the commercial market is aimed at, technical advances get
|
|
sacrificed at the altar of compatability (Consider that the largest selling OS
|
|
today is the most wretched). It would be a sad day for Linux if it happened.
|
|
|
|
2) It is true to an extent that cd-rom makers are making money out of Linux.
|
|
That is capitalism for you. People will make money where they can make money.
|
|
No one in the Linux programmer group has suffered because of the CD guys. When
|
|
Linus released his code under the GPL he knew exactly what he was getting
|
|
into. Perhaps he enjoys programming for fun, perhaps he gets to go to a lot of
|
|
places and speak...
|
|
|
|
The CD-ROM market is hyped up for now, but I see no harm in CD-Makers who make
|
|
20 dollar CD-Sets. I have one, which is just a collection of archives, and I
|
|
save a lot of time and money by not doing ftp's all the time. I waste far
|
|
fewer hours doing ftp's with a 20 dollar cd. So I do not lose, Linus does not
|
|
mind, God is in His heaven and all is well with the world. Where is the
|
|
problem?
|
|
--
|
|
Jagadeesh K. Venugopal | Presently on co-op with
|
|
Grad Student, CCS | Thomson Financial Services
|
|
Northeastern University | Systems Administration Group
|
|
Boston, Mass. | 22 Pittsburgh, Boston, MA 02210
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
------------------------------
|
|
|
|
|
|
** FOR YOUR REFERENCE **
|
|
|
|
The service address, to which questions about the list itself and requests
|
|
to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, is:
|
|
|
|
Internet: Linux-Development-Request@NEWS-DIGESTS.MIT.EDU
|
|
|
|
You can send mail to the entire list (and comp.os.linux.development) via:
|
|
|
|
Internet: Linux-Development@NEWS-DIGESTS.MIT.EDU
|
|
|
|
Linux may be obtained via one of these FTP sites:
|
|
nic.funet.fi pub/OS/Linux
|
|
tsx-11.mit.edu pub/linux
|
|
sunsite.unc.edu pub/Linux
|
|
|
|
End of Linux-Development Digest
|
|
******************************
|