607 lines
22 KiB
Plaintext
607 lines
22 KiB
Plaintext
From: Digestifier <Linux-Misc-Request@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu>
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To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu
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Reply-To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu
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Date: Fri, 30 Sep 94 13:13:34 EDT
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Subject: Linux-Misc Digest #850
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Linux-Misc Digest #850, Volume #2 Fri, 30 Sep 94 13:13:34 EDT
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Contents:
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Re: New Linux Distribution (Steve Dunham)
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Re: 256 colors on laptop X (Mark Hedley)
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Re: New Linux Distribution (Erik Troan)
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Re: New Linux Distribution (Thomas Aaron Insel)
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Re: where to get the texbook (Hans Petter Fasteng)
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Suggestions for a 486 PCI Motherboard (Steven M. Henry)
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Re: How to use a host as a router - READ THIS (Alan Cox)
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Re: DVI and apsfilter 2-3 help. (Stephen Gourdie)
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Re: TI486DCL (Marten Liebster)
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Re: New Linux Distribution (S. Lee)
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Re: SCO WordPerfect: does it run on Linux? (Marc Fraioli)
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Re: Hmmm (Jussi Rosti)
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Re: free unix software (Rick Reilly)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From: dunham@gdl.msu.edu (Steve Dunham)
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Subject: Re: New Linux Distribution
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Date: 30 Sep 1994 13:40:52 GMT
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Juana Moreno (madrid@gandalf.rutgers.edu) wrote:
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: - Defaults to SINGLE USER mode. No need to show the complications
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: of multiuser accounts to newbies who will likely use it
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: personally.
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Bad idea. Newbie's shouldn't have root access.
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: - Only enough utilities to match the functionality of the DOS
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: standard utilities plus the major unix winners like
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: grep, awk and sed. (But not vi or emacs!!!).
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Bad idea. The standard unix suite doesn't take up that much space,
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and it is very powerfull. Newbie's might not use them, but
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installation scripts &c for newbies might.
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ALWAYS INCLUDE `vi' WITH UNIX. I don't like `vi'; but I know how to
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use it, and I know that it comes with every unix. When the newbie
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screws up his computer, the expert friend who fixes everything will
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expect vi to be there.
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: - NO NETWORKING, except for maybe a terminal program (minicom) and
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: a mostly configured SLIP (client side only). In that case,
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: maybe Mosaic should be also included.
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People want Internet connectivity. It's comming with the next Windoze
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and OS/2.
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: -NO SCSI. Most home dos-win users don't even know what SCSI is.
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Most home dos-win users are buying these `Multimedia' SX's which come
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with SCSI CD-ROM's.
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: -XFree 3.1 configured to use the VGA16 server (mono or color) with
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: a generic (low resolution) Xconfig.
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Bad idea. Make VGA16 default and then have a config program that
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allows them to change it.
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: - Only one window manager: FVWM
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olvwm is nice... maybe even gwm would be appropriate, with a little
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bit of work you could make it look and function exactly like windoze
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(not that anybody would want to...).
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: - No developing tools.
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You might want to include cpp. It is used by a lot of programs like X
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and raytracers...(and maybe installation scripts).
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Definitely offer a seperate set of developer disks.
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: - The binaries should fit (gzipped) in 10 1.44 floppies.
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: Well, that's my idea. I'd like to hear comments before I start packaging
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: everything, because if you think this is useless I'd like to know before
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: I waste my time. All suggestions will be appreciated.
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I think there is more usefull stuff that you can do. Can you code?
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Some nice installation programs would be nice. Ones that run on both
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an X screen and tty. Things that are needed:
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* X windows setup program. Video mode &c.
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* GUI-based Administration program - I think AT&T has developed
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one of these as part of its OpenLook system; you might want to
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take a look.
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* WYSIWIG front end for LaTeX (or ptroff). - would be a big
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project though.
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An easy to install Linux would be nice; but try not to cut back too
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far on the the utilities &c that are considered `standard unix'.
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Steve
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dunham@gdl.msu.edu
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------------------------------
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From: hedley@metro (Mark Hedley)
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Subject: Re: 256 colors on laptop X
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Date: Thu, 29 Sep 1994 03:42:01 GMT
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Are there any laptops that can run XFree 3.x (when available) with MORE
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than 256 colours?
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Mark
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------------------------------
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From: sasewt@tarrant.unx.sas.com (Erik Troan)
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Subject: Re: New Linux Distribution
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Date: Fri, 30 Sep 1994 14:55:20 GMT
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In article <36e374$sji@gandalf.rutgers.edu>,
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Juana Moreno <madrid@gandalf.rutgers.edu> wrote:
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>
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>I did not change my mind about keeping the distribution tiny, stripping
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>many Unix utilities. Even if the distribution looks similar to WinDos it
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>won't be. Even with only enough utilities to match Microsoft's ones users
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>will have the following advantages:
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>
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> - Nonpropietary formats in data files. I started hating Microsoft
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>products the first time I wanted to edit the data I stored using CARDFILE.EXE
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DOS users don't care about this. As long as their cardfile utility can read
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their cardfile, they win. With OLE, this is becoming even less of an issue in
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the Windows world.
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> - Powerful shell scripting. I do not want to prevent users to use it,
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>I just want to make it easier for them. One of the points of the .BAT->.sh
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>translator is that users will be able to look at the .sh output and learn
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>the basic .sh commands that way. And it seems so easy to make!
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If you don't include many of the Unix utilities, you're not including a
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powerful scripting shell. Shells have essentially no usefull abilities
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apart from running other programs. Besdides, if your target audience needs
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a .BAT->.sh convertor, do you think they'll bother learning to program sh
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directly?
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> - No stupid limits on resources or size of files to edit. Reliable
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>crash protection. No stupid limits on command lines. Reliable virtual memory.
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>32bit disk and memory access without hassles and in general a much better
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>handling of the (supported) hardware.
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This sounds like an ad for Chicago (or Windows '95 or whatever it is now).
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> - Powerful automation of tasks via batch and cron. For example, running
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>updatedb every night beats the fastest DosWin file finder by orders of
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>magnitude.
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> - Freedom from the 8.3 constraint.
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See the Chicago comment.
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> - Multiple virtual consoles (I never thought of not having them, Erik)
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Good. Sorry I misunderstood you.
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> - Multiple users. OK, I changed my mind on this one, mainly because
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>I realized that accounts make it easy to have different background bitmaps
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>for different moods :-) I really don't buy the claim that having root
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>access is dangerous since DosWin users have root access all the time. It's
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>not that bad, it just demystifies the unix sysadmin work.
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DOS doesn't have "rm -rf /". Those 8 little letters can ruin your day. Unix
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gives power, and it's a good idea to keep the safety mechanisms if you're
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going to keep the power.
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> - Dos-like and Windows-like utilities
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> - Grep, awk, sed, bash
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If you want real scripting, don't forget uniq, sort, cut, and tr at a minimum.
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> - Slip client and Mosaic
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> - Dosemu and ( later ) Wine
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Good luck with getting Dosemu configured. Isn't everything for it compiled
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in or controlled by an arcane configuration file?
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> - Ghostscript
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I seriously doubt this would really be necessary. It's takes a lot of disk
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space.
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>I haven't decided yet about the applets that I'll include, so I am open to
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>more suggestions. I don't have a complete list of Windows equivalents, so
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>please help me with that. I feel there is a need to have a distribution like
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>the Windows Introductory Trial distribution I am proposing. Repartitioning and
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>filling 50M of your disk is just too much to try Linux. And the problem with
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>installing just the "a" series of Slackware is that you get a lot of utilities
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>that you will never use while others (like Xfm and dosemu) are missing.
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>So thanks to all of you who made suggestions. I'd like to have more.
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What about development stuff, and how are you going to configure X?
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Have you ever looked at MCC? Please do before you get to far. MCC is old
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and it could stand some updating. I think combining MCC, TinyX, fancy
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installation scripts, and UMSDOS would be a definite winner. I've been
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wanting someone to do that for a long time now. Take a look at the
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ConfigXF86 package as well - it's not optimal, but it's a lot better
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a newbie then editing XConfigs.
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When I installed MCC the first time I added TinyX and had a complete Unix
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system in about 17MB of disk space - that's with kernel sources, a C
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compilerm and networking.
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Before you run off and create a new distribution, please look at what others
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have done - a lot of thought were put into both MCC and TinyX and they
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are both pretty well done. You might help more newbies by:
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1) Writing a good sysadm shell. Look sat IBM's "smit" for an example. Smit
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is the only good thing about AIX.
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2) Write a easy to use configuration program for DOSEMU.
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3) Figure out a better way of configuring X. A program that would detect
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what kind of video card you have would be a good start.
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Doing WIT could be very bad for Linux if it isn't done right, so please be
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carefull. I don't know why you don't want to include full *client* side
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networking if you're going to include SLIP. It's much easier to setup
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a Unix box as a telnet client then make SLIP do anything. You're also
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ignoring term completely.
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Erik
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--
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===========================================================================
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"I'm not like that -- except when I am" ewt@sunsite.unc.edu = Erik Troan
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sasewt@unx.sas.com
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- Nora from "Pump up the Volume"
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------------------------------
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From: tinsel@uiuc.edu (Thomas Aaron Insel)
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Subject: Re: New Linux Distribution
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Date: 28 Sep 1994 18:06:51 GMT
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Reply-To: tinsel@uiuc.edu
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madrid@gandalf.rutgers.edu (Juana Moreno) writes:
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I wouldn't use it, but I think this is a good idea overall. A few
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comments:
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> - Defaults to SINGLE USER mode. No need to show the complications
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> of multiuser accounts to newbies who will likely use it
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> personally.
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Dangerous -- at the very least, have two users -- root and a "Joe
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User" account, like NeXT shipped with. You can auto-login the regular
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user and have him/her su to do sysadmin stuff.
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> - NO NETWORKING, except for maybe a terminal program (minicom) and
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> a mostly configured SLIP (client side only). In that case,
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> maybe Mosaic should be also included.
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Mosaic is a must if you include slip -- it would also make a good
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browser for local help files (ala Windows Help?).
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> -NO SCSI. Most home dos-win users don't even know what SCSI is.
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No reason to screw people who do have a SCSI disk -- it wouldn't be
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hard to probe for this & install a kernel with SCSI drivers if
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necessary.
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> - Utilities to match the standard Windows applets:
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Xfig is nice.
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> - No developing tools.
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Hmm. If people think they're getting a Unix-compatible system, they
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might be a bit upset confused when someone gives them a nifty program
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& they can't compile it. Similarly, I'm not sure that it would be a
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good idea to leave out any of the standard unix commands.
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--
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Thomas Insel (tinsel@uiuc.edu)
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"I don't want to achieve immortality through my work. I want to achieve it
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through not dying." -- Woody Allen
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------------------------------
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From: hansf@kfdata.no (Hans Petter Fasteng)
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Subject: Re: where to get the texbook
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Date: Thu, 29 Sep 1994 16:07:09 GMT
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Charles Blair (ceblair@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu) wrote:
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: CAUTION Neither the book by Knuth nor the book by Lamport describes
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: the texinfo system used by GNU, although both are interesting for their
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: own sake. I would suggest looking through whatever documentation
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: prep.ai.mit.edu has on info and texinfo first.
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thank you all for your help, strange that it is not anny doc with tex
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latex or texinfo distributions since all other GNU software is so well
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documented. I will look around and see what I find.
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Thanks to all of you
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-hans
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------------------------------
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From: smhenry@vt.edu (Steven M. Henry)
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Subject: Suggestions for a 486 PCI Motherboard
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Date: Fri, 30 Sep 1994 09:26:53
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I am in the market to upgrade my computer and want to purchase a 486 PCI
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motherboard that will give me good performance and will be compatible with
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Linux. Please email me or post any replies.
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I will post a summary of the responses.
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Thanks,
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smhenry@vt.edu
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------------------------------
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Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development,comp.os.linux.admin,alt.uu.comp.os.linux.questions
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From: iialan@iifeak.swan.ac.uk (Alan Cox)
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Subject: Re: How to use a host as a router - READ THIS
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Date: Wed, 28 Sep 1994 10:18:01 GMT
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In article <CwLFH1.B3p@tasking.nl> fvm@tasking.nl (Frank van Maarseveen) writes:
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>This was done in order to route something across the same physical network
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>without the need for an extra adapter. The second "virtual" adapter was
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>referred to as le0:1, the ":1" part appended to the original adapter name.
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>Though a bit unusual, there's nothing wrong with this I think.
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>I suppose there are no plans yet for implementing this feature in linux.
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If Solaris takes the 4.4 BSD route it has a linked list of addresses for
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each address family. This worries me for performance reasons. Linux can
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happily do what you want with the dummy inteface (and you can add more
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dummy interfaces 8)).
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ifconfig dummy my.other.addr.ess up
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arp -s my.other.addr.ess MY:ET:HE:RN:ET:NM
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Alan
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--
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..-----------,,----------------------------,,----------------------------,,
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// Alan Cox // iialan@www.linux.org.uk // GW4PTS@GB7SWN.#45.GBR.EU //
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``----------'`----------------------------'`----------------------------''
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------------------------------
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From: steve@stevegd.equinox.gen.nz (Stephen Gourdie)
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Subject: Re: DVI and apsfilter 2-3 help.
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Date: Fri, 30 Sep 1994 09:20:38 GMT
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Carlos Dominguez (carlos@interport.net) wrote:
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: Has anyone been able to get apsfilter-2.3 that came as a package with
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: slackware 2.0 to print DVI files? The docs mention both dvi2ps and dvips,
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The problem is not with apsfilter but with a command 'file' that is called
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buy this filter. 'file' uses a file '/etc/magic' to recognise file types.
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The '/etc/magic' supplied with Slackware2.0, and probably other distributions,
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is not set up correctly to recognise DVI files.
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So, open '/etc/magic' to edit and change the DVI entry to the following:
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# magic.tex:
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#
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# XXX - needs byte-endian stuff (big-endian and little-endian DVI?)
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#
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0 short 0x2f7 DVI File
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>16 string >\0 (%s)
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0 short 0173531 Packed TeX Font
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>4 string >\0 (%s)
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2 string \000\022 Metafont Font Metric
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>34 string >\0 (%s)
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This should cure the problem. It did for me anyway.
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Steve
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:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
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Stephen F. Gourdie steve@stevegd.equinox.gen.nz (pref)
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Christchurch Stephen_Gourdie@equinox.gen.nz
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New Zealand ph (643) 389 4332
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:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
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------------------------------
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From: mmarten@panix.com (Marten Liebster)
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Subject: Re: TI486DCL
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Date: 28 Sep 1994 20:19:22 -0400
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John Walton (walton@emc.com) wrote:
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: Has anyone ahve good/bad experiences with 486DLC processors.
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: For that matter what is a 486DLC??
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: Considering upgrading working 386DX.
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: Thanks
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I have the 486 DLC 40 Mhz with a Cryx math co-proc wired
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on board The board has space up to 256k cache and has
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room for up to 32mb of ram and there are 2 local bus slots
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It is a perfectly fine machine, though I want to put a
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dx2 66 on the board
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Marten
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--
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========================================
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Marten M. Liebster Please no flames for spelling,
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mmarten@panix.com I already know I can't spell!!
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------------------------------
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From: sl14@crux3.cit.cornell.edu (S. Lee)
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Subject: Re: New Linux Distribution
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Date: 28 Sep 1994 18:17:12 GMT
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In article <1994Sep28.152155.16251@cs.cornell.edu>,
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Matt Welsh <mdw@cs.cornell.edu> wrote:
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>In article <36ber3$4ht@gandalf.rutgers.edu> madrid@gandalf.rutgers.edu (Juana Moreno) writes:
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>>I have been thinking of putting up a new Linux distribution especially
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>>oriented to DOS-Win dummies.
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>
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>Please, I just ate.
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>
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>There are things that can be done to wean new users into the world
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>of UNIX. But giving Linux a lobotomy is not the answer.
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I couldn't take Juana's idea, either. But I do have something in
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mind:
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Is it possible to make a "Instant DOS-installable Linux"? What if
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somebody
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1) installs slackware on a Umsdos partition
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2) Installs Loadlin under DOS
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3) zip the whole X:\Linux and X:\Loadlin directory into LINUX.ZIP (I'm
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against .tar.gz here because it is easier to get zip under DOS)
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Now somebody else
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4) downloads LINUX.ZIP from some DOS site
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5) unzip it
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6) runs an installation program which selects the right kernel, maybe
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setup a few files like loadlin, /etc/fstab and Xconfig, and moves the
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files into the correct places
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7) run loadlin
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Whoa! Instant Linux!
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Admittedly this would be slower than a Linux running under ext2, but
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the installation would be less scary to the new user because
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everything is done under DOS up until the last step, where they type
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in a command and find themselves get right into Linux. And it is
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totally uninstallable, too - just delete the whole X:\Linux tree.
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Now I'm very satisfied with my native Linux system, so no need to
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flame me, this is just one of those interesting thoughts that have
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been nagging me for quite a while.
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I'd like to know if somebody has tried this. Or, any reason why this
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can/cannot be done would be interesting.
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Stephen
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sl14@cornell.edu
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Witty .sig under construction.
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------------------------------
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From: mjf@clark.net (Marc Fraioli)
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Subject: Re: SCO WordPerfect: does it run on Linux?
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Date: 30 Sep 1994 15:11:32 GMT
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Reply-To: mjf@clark.net
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In article 4500@taylor.infi.net, mark@taylor.infi.net (Mark A. Davis) writes:
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>mjf@clark.net (Marc Fraioli) writes:
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>> Due to my constant exposure to it and great
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>>hatred for it, I am afraid you will be unable to convince me of its
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>
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>Not sure why you would HATE it....
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>
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Perhaps I should enumerate some of the reasons:
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1. Printing requires a separate suid root daemon with its own
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configuration program. Why can't they just print through lpd
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like everyone else?
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2. Although the program is nominally X/Motif (it creates a window,
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has pull-down menus, etc.), it is still basically a text program.
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It is clearly text-oriented. For example, choosing "load" from
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the file menu results in WP's text file load screen taking over
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the window from the document, just like it does under DOS. No
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Motif filebox. This shows more laziness than anything else,
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I suspect, but it still blows.
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3. It crashes. A lot. Usually just locks up, but sometimes the
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window dies while the process stays behind. When this happens
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(once a week, with heavy use) the process is somehow unkillable. The only way
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to get rid of it is to reboot. And you'd better do that, too,
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since if you don't, and try to start a new instance of WP, odds
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are 50-50 that the whole OS will crash, right down to the PROM
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monitor. Only piece of user-space code I've ever seen which can
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crash Ultrix. I suspect the suid root piece must have something
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to do with this.
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4. Strange screen effects. The scrollbars don't work right. They
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don't show your correct relative position in the document, and you
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can't scroll all the way to the bottom of the document. You get
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about 85% of the way there, and suddenly the document jumps back
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to about 50%.
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There are many more, but these are sufficient to damn it internally
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in my mind.
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>>non-existence (although I wish it were so). 5.1-X is not too bad, but
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>>it is not available for Ultrix, which is what I have on my desk at work.
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>
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>Time to change OS's? Maybe you could run the newer version remotely....
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>or, if for some reason you hate WP, not just the DEC 5.0 version, then
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>use something else.... $$$$ Framemaker, Island Write, On-Go, Applixware...
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>
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This is difficult for me to do, as my employer doesn't authorize me
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to spend any money. At any rate, I don't want to bring this horrible
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beast home to my Linux box. Note though, that I am aware that 5.1 on
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SunOS 4.1.3 is dramatically better, although still not perfect.
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---
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Marc Fraioli | "They couldn't hit an elephant at this dist- "
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mjf@clark.net | - Last words of Union General John Sedgwick,
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| Battle of Spotsylvania Court House, U.S. Civil War
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------------------------------
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From: jrosti@cc.Helsinki.FI (Jussi Rosti)
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Crossposted-To: alt.fan.linus-torvalds
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Subject: Re: Hmmm
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Date: 30 Sep 1994 08:14:12 +0200
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In <36du6r$6fj@lyra.csx.cam.ac.uk> Mitchum.DSouza@mrc-apu.cam.ac.uk (Mitchum DSouza) writes:
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>Hey I'm a fan. Have been so since 0.10. Im sure everyone else joined a bit more
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>recently.
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Oh boy, you're real tough guy! What a forerunner!
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--
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________________________________________________________________________
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Jussi.Rosti@Helsinki.FI http://www.helsinki.fi/~jrosti/
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------------------------------
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From: oreillyp@earth.execpc.com (Rick Reilly)
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Subject: Re: free unix software
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Date: 30 Sep 1994 15:10:52 GMT
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I am looking for free software which I can compile and/or run on linux.
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The packages I am interested in are CAD, speadsheets, and word processors.
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Applications running under X are preferred. I would appreciate either the
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location of a particular package or a site containing many packages.
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------------------------------
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to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, is:
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Internet: Linux-Misc-Request@NEWS-DIGESTS.MIT.EDU
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You can send mail to the entire list (and comp.os.linux.misc) via:
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Internet: Linux-Misc@NEWS-DIGESTS.MIT.EDU
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Linux may be obtained via one of these FTP sites:
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nic.funet.fi pub/OS/Linux
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tsx-11.mit.edu pub/linux
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sunsite.unc.edu pub/Linux
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End of Linux-Misc Digest
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******************************
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